konrad Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 (edited) After seeing those spoke torque specs written in newton-meters, I agree they do seem low. As a very general point of reference, a standard M4 fastener might require 3.5 Nm, and an M5 fastener about 7 - 8 Nm. Edited July 10 by konrad fixed typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7heilRhino Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 It seems light to me too. Now you’ve got me concerned. Errors do occur in books. When I smack my spokes they give off a nice sharp ping though. I think I’ll call my local dealer to ask the question. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBob Posted July 10 Author Report Share Posted July 10 3 hours ago, 7heilRhino said: It seems light to me too. Now you’ve got me concerned. Errors do occur in books. When I smack my spokes they give off a nice sharp ping though. I think I’ll call my local dealer to ask the question. Good luck! Let me know what your dealer says. It would be interesting to know. I think Konrad is close to the mark with the 7nm rating. I did not try to tighten the spokes to see just how tight they are with my torque wrench but, they are far beyond the spec in the book which makes sense to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad Posted July 10 Report Share Posted July 10 The GG manual may be a typo. But if I had to guess, I would say the published spec may be the torque use by Morad's wheel building machine (likely with a lubricant on the thread). It has no bearing on tensioning a dirty spoke by the end user. This test shows the effect of torque on a lubricated thread versus a dry thread: https://youtu.be/-hSmtLVESSM?t=999 The link drops you into the relevant part, but the entire video is worth watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBob Posted July 10 Author Report Share Posted July 10 48 minutes ago, konrad said: The GG manual may be a typo. But if I had to guess, I would say the published spec may be the torque use by Morad's wheel building machine (likely with a lubricant on the thread). It has no bearing on tensioning a dirty spoke by the end user. This test shows the effect of torque on a lubricated thread versus a dry thread: https://youtu.be/-hSmtLVESSM?t=999 The link drops you into the relevant part, but the entire video is worth watching. Yep, never torque a bolt with anti-seize on it. I already knew about that. I always torque "dry" bolts. Good video. I'm willing to bet that GG has a typo in their manual. Although, anything is possible and I am certainly no expert but, I would be surprised if they use lubricant when they assemble their wheels. Published torque specs are usually for dry threads. I don't know... Will be interesting to see what the dealer has to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cascao Posted Friday at 04:05 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 04:05 AM There are more mistakes on these manuals than expected. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted Friday at 06:01 AM Report Share Posted Friday at 06:01 AM On 7/10/2024 at 2:57 PM, CaptainBob said: Yep, never torque a bolt with anti-seize on it. I already knew about that. I always torque "dry" bolts. Good video. I'm willing to bet that GG has a typo in their manual. Although, anything is possible and I am certainly no expert but, I would be surprised if they use lubricant when they assemble their wheels. Published torque specs are usually for dry threads. I don't know... Will be interesting to see what the dealer has to say. The engineering conundrum, I'd never assemble without anti sieze ..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted Sunday at 06:06 AM Report Share Posted Sunday at 06:06 AM On 7/10/2024 at 11:57 PM, CaptainBob said: Yep, never torque a bolt with anti-seize on it. I already knew about that. I always torque "dry" bolts. Good video. I'm willing to bet that GG has a typo in their manual. Although, anything is possible and I am certainly no expert but, I would be surprised if they use lubricant when they assemble their wheels. Published torque specs are usually for dry threads. I don't know... Will be interesting to see what the dealer has to say. Yes the trials bike manufacturers don't seem to lubricate anything properly when they put the bikes together. People either pull their new bike apart and lube things properly, or replace the rusty and seized parts when they fail. In my experience the steering head bearings, swing-arm and shock link bearings last about one season unless lubricated post-purchase. Many people also lube the spoke threads as part of their new bike ride preparation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted Sunday at 10:26 AM Report Share Posted Sunday at 10:26 AM On 7/12/2024 at 7:01 AM, b40rt said: The engineering conundrum, I'd never assemble without anti sieze ..... On my MTB wheel building course we were taught to lube the thread to assemble the wheel. The explanation was that a dry thread might require different force between individual spokes to achieve the same tightness. I have no idea if that is correct or sensible - just what the person taught me. The tutor was a professional wheel builder and had worked for some of the top teams. Thinking about the issue raised by this topic it occurs to me that trials (and other spoked MC) wheels generally do not need any attention. Neither do modern machine-built MTB wheels. When I started mountain biking it was common for a shop that built a wheel to tell you to bring it back in a couple of weeks to readjust. (My course tutor said this is because the idiot that built it had not got it right at the first attempt). The wheel I built never needed adjusting and the hub broke eventually. You do not see adverts for hand-built wheels any more. I think the hypothesis that the manual has the wrong torque settings might be a good one. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainBob Posted Monday at 01:03 AM Author Report Share Posted Monday at 01:03 AM 14 hours ago, ChrisCH said: On my MTB wheel building course we were taught to lube the thread to assemble the wheel. The explanation was that a dry thread might require different force between individual spokes to achieve the same tightness. I have no idea if that is correct or sensible - just what the person taught me. The tutor was a professional wheel builder and had worked for some of the top teams. Thinking about the issue raised by this topic it occurs to me that trials (and other spoked MC) wheels generally do not need any attention. Neither do modern machine-built MTB wheels. When I started mountain biking it was common for a shop that built a wheel to tell you to bring it back in a couple of weeks to readjust. (My course tutor said this is because the idiot that built it had not got it right at the first attempt). The wheel I built never needed adjusting and the hub broke eventually. You do not see adverts for hand-built wheels any more. I think the hypothesis that the manual has the wrong torque settings might be a good one. Interesting.... I had a couple wheels built for me by Warp 9. When I received them, Paperwork stated to check tightness after 1 hour ride (44 inch pounds). Then, check again after 8 additional hours of riding. I did so and found some spokes required tightening after the first hour. I may have needed to tighten another spoke or two after the second iteration. After many hours of riding, they have now settled in and have not needed any additional adjustment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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