The Ideal Youth National

[markymark]

The first two A & B nationals have prompted much discussion re time limits,out of class etc.

Ithought it might be helpful for some experienced lads and dads to say here how they would like to see national trials set out.

As a clerk of the coirse myself and trials national dad in my 5th season I dont want any organisers to see this as critisam as I know that running atrial is far from a perfect science and I guarantee you will not please all the people all the time.It also depends on hw much help you get.

Iwould like to kick off with some of my own thoughts.

1.Ideally with 100 riders or so about 20 sections and 2 laps.Time limit 5.5 hours.I think most would agree this about optimum to reduce 2 below without having the observers standing there all day or having to have a ridiculous number of them.

2.As Adsy said in the Otter Vale thread these trials should be about skill balance finess and aggression IN the sections.NOT who is the fastest nutter between the sections and good at que jumping. We have the wrong bikes,wrong protective gear and wrong insurance policy for this type of behavior!!

3.Tough big sections should be encouraged. We are after all trying to bring onthe next generation of world round riders arent we? Abritish championship isnt the place for aleisurely ride round and alot of beginners and lesser riders would gain more benefit from watching.A bit harsh maybe but I place myself in this category in the adults.

4.When designing a section bear in mind whether it needs one or two observers to mark &punch cards to keep it flowing.

5.At the briefing make it clear that any rule breaches,observer intimidation will not be tolerated and follow it thruogh no matter who the rider is.

Thats it for the moment.All the nationals are very well done and I take my hat off to all the organisers and with some positive feed back and fine tuning maybe we can all get even more enjoyment out of it.

What do you think?

[desperado]

Constructive comments Markymark and your ideas 1, 2, 4 & 5 are sound. Reference section 3 on the tough big sections to bring on world class riders.In reality we are talking very few riders in this category but non the less very important. The ideal way to give these lads a run out would be another route thro the section aka Expert Extreme.

We tried this in a Breidden Hills club trial 3 weeks ago at Nantmawr Quarry when we ran a 'green' route which deviated off the normal expert route and marked it to a loose FIM marking system. We attracted 7 riders to attempt it - Youth riders Alexz, Ross, Buster, George Morton together with Tom Sagar, Craig Robinson & Eddie Roberts. Nothing stupid but some tasty big rocks and technical terrain.I must admit it took a lot of planning, especially given that we put 5 routes thro each section !

It was a success. In fact for Alexz and Ross it was still not hard enough !

Have a look at www.breiddenhillsmcc.org or www.rossdanby.net to see piccies and videos.

Food for thought ?

[bikespace]

I applaud your ever increasing neck with getting the plugs in Desperado

But I'm not convinced that another route on the A&B nationals is the way to go. There are enough riders of the required ability to try some big stuff and with enough minders around to catch, the CofC has to judge the level of danger involved for the kids.

I did Nationals as a youth, especially during the first year in a new class, where I didn't fancy having a go at some of the sections. Some of them I did anyway and found that I was closer to it than I thought, and this experience sometimes takes you up a peg. Some of them I held off, but went away knowing what I needed to aim for.

Some of them I fell off and created the ugly mug that now sits above my shoulders

There needs to be a balance of sections, but I think throwing in some big stuff here and there is almost mandatory without slipping in to bravado where every section is a killer.

I might feel differently when my own flesh and blood reaches that age. How do the parents (and the existing riders) feel? Truthfully!

[desperado]

Spot on Bikespace - It should be the current riders and parents that put their thoughts into this sort of debate.

We at Breidden Hills ...........(Ok enough of that)

Seriously lads and dads give us organisers your honest views.

[comorph]

Otter Vale, Super Sections in both the A and B class well done C of C.

5.5 hours is tight when the Dad/Minder has to cover a long distance per lap.

All the Guys and Girls no matter what standard they are have a right to enter the nationals, (there is no seeding set by the ACU) this way they can compare there result to the best in the country, its a credit to all that finish.

No out of class riding unless ortherized by the ACU.

The problem has only been highlighted this weekend because the lesser riders had no choice but to go through section three, taking a lot longer then the better riders as they neaded lots of help

[adsy]

markymark I think all your points are just about spot on.

Two laps of twenty sections I think is spot on, If Dob Park

had 5 1/2 hrs I think it would have been perfect. As said before,

the Otter vale trial is a one off because the only way up the first

gulley is through the sections, which meant the lesser riders getting

stuck. Even Zac Sherwin lost time penalties, & that is a first!

If a Youth National is 20 sections I think there should be 10 hard sections

for the good lads, 5 easy & 5 mediocre. These trials are like you say

meant for the best youths in the country, & to groom them for future

success in the Youth & Adult British, Euro & World rounds hopefully.

I don't think another route is a way forward, the job is hard enough for

the COC as it is, and I'm talking from experience, this would just encourage

even more less experienced riders to 'have a go', & make the problem worse.

Ideally 2 observers per section, to keep things flowing, but again its hard enough getting 1 per section, so beggers can't be chosers.

The current Nationals are not far off at all & all credit to the Clubs

& individuals that are willing to take them on, without them we would'nt

have any at all, so if any of you read this, please do not take it as criticism

as it not meant to be.

We'll have to see how the next round at Scarborough pans out, maybe that will be

the 'Ideal Youth National'.

[jonty]

I agree with Adsy. I don't think the current youth national system is very far wrong at all. The fact is the better riders will always rise to the top despite others riding out of class or not being as competitive.Riders of the quality of Lee Sampson, Sam Haslam, Matt Jones, Wiggy, Ross Danby etc are good despite the national youth scene not because of it.Interesting to note that the large proportion of comments on this topic and the one under Otter Vale come from adults (presumably parents).The lads themselves just get on their bikes and do the business.

If you want see really competetive parents then pop down to your local Under 11's football match on a saturday morning.

Let's not sink to that level please.

[telecat]

Personally I prefer Hi-Fi!! I'm there to catch( and according to NYL I'm not much good at that!). I work and clean the bike, Get him there, pay for training and entries, Help out the clubs as much as I can, and lastly try to stop him doing too much too soon. He drives himself and looking at most other dad's in this sport they cannot compete with their son's (and daughters). We are merely here to pick up the pieces and encourage. A nicer group of parents are hard to find.

[jonty]

Spot on Telecat!My point basically was that in the many trials at club, centre and national level that I have attended with my son over the last five years I can't remember a young rider complaining about the event.It always seems to be the parents who have some grievance.As I said the lads just get on with it.

[no1]

both the nationals have been spot on all the riders now the time limit at the start. some nationals are slake on time some arn't everyone knows that otter vale is tight on time.

what i think the organisers should do is there sums,how many riders divided by so many sections and the lenth of the lap and consider it is a british championship not club trial the top riders want to get it right first go not rush it because of the time.

the ideal national i think is 2 laps 20 sections 6 hours.

And let any lad or las enter if there age is correct or have dispensation from acu.

[as iow]

both the nationals have been spot on all the riders now the time limit at the start. some nationals are slake on time some arn't everyone knows that otter vale is tight on time.

what i think the organisers should do is there sums,how many riders divided by so many sections and the lenth of the lap and consider it is a british championship not club trial the top riders want to get it right first go not rush it because of the time.

the ideal national i think is 2 laps 20 sections 6 hours.

And let any lad or las enter if there age is correct or have dispensation from acu.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes you are wright but i can't agree with this age thing,it should be that any lad can enter if he is good enough as apposed to old enough. A 16yr old lad who has just started trials should never be aloud to enter a British A class championship event, he would be a danger to himself and a nusance to all the other riders. But on the other hand look at Jack Sheppard,Jake Luter, Richard Sadler, and Keelan last years C class riders who are doing OK in B class. To my mind the question has to be are you good enough, and not are you old enough.

[no1]

if you had a entry of only 15 A class and 15 B class in iow national would you like that or would you like 100 plus thats the point it takes a lot of efort to lay out a national as you no, and a lot of clubs could not aford it without a good sponsor at hand, or should the acu find sponsorship for youth nationals