2014 tri280 clutch dragging

[robertbarnstijn]

Hi everyone,

 

I own my 2014 tri280  over 7 years. I use it only a few hours a year in my backjard. No oil changed or repairs were needed. Untill now.

 

The clutch is starting to give problems:

When "clutched" ( i mean brake connection between crank and gears) it starts to drags al little. I have to brake otherwise it will slowly drive away.

The point of engagement (? if this is the correct term, im not sure) hasnt changed. When "not clutched" there is no slip at all. (sorry about bad english, i try)

So before taking everything apart I read as much as possible. Found ossa-efi.com. Thanks a lot Konrad for your work.

I found stuff regarding slipping clutches, but not about my "dragging" problem.

I thought maybe too low oil (jes there is some smoke), but the level is at the top of the sight glass. 

 

What do you guys think of? Swollen clutch plates thus simply change oil?  ATFdexronIII as i read? 

 

regards, robairo.

 

 

 

[lemur]

Point of engagement to full engagement is called the 'friction zone' and the position it starts should be adjusted at the brake lever adjusters.

The thing that makes cork or paper clutch plates swell, stick and make noises is water in the transmission oil from leaking seals or condensation (transmissions are vented to the atmosphere), cork swells more in the presence of water.  Water in the transmission oil can be seen as opaque or milky colour to the oil instead of clear oil.  Yes lots of people use ATF for the transmission but I swear by hydraulic oil same as used in tractors and excavators because it has greater lubricity compared to ATF.  

Transmission oil in a 2-stroke engine never ends up being burnt in the engine, smoke from the exhaust has no relationship to the transmission oil. (or you have a big end seal or gasket leaking)

If the clutch action is mushy that is generally caused by air in the hydraulics of the clutch actuator and your hydraulics need fluid changing and bleeding.

Clutch hydraulics use either DOT brake fluid which is hygroscopic and requires changing more than once in 7 years, or they use thin mineral oil.  It will be marked on the clutch. master cylinder cover which fluid you should use.

When DOT fluid contains too much water there is a risk of boiling the water in the hydraulics and that will cause the brakes to drag when hot and it can introduce air into the hydraulics because when water boils it makes steam which is O2 being released from the H2O.  aka worlds smallest steam engine.

Too much oil (oil level too high) or dirty oil is more likely to make a clutch slip because oil gets trapped between the clutch plates and causes a hydraulic pressure that works against the clutch springs which are trying to push the friction plates together.

Edited July 16, 2024 by lemur

[konrad]

Your clutch is not disengaging.

Possibly a problem with the clutch master cylinder (handlebar lever).  Is it leaking?  You may need to install a new "clutch pump piston".  At the very least, give it fresh mineral oil and bleed any air out of the clutch hydraulic system.

 I added part numbers for the clutch pump rebuild kits here: https://www.ossa-efi.com/home/engine/clutch#h.sf023em3dqtp

Definitely change the gearbox fluid as well.  Use any ATF that's available where you live.  I would ride the bike for 1 hour and then change the gearbox fluid again.  7 years is a long time, regardless of hours.  Inspect the drain plug magnet for metal particles.

Edited July 16, 2024 by konrad

[konrad]

What's the best lube for a gearbox? Gear oil.  What's the best lube for clutch plates?  ATF.  Pick what you want to optimize.

Electric Motion got it right with the FACTOR-e,  They used two different lubricants in two different systems. The gearbox lube is separate from the clutch lube.

[robertbarnstijn]

Thanks guys for answer.

im convinced now that i have to change both oils. The mc cap says mineral oil. thats clear.

The oil in the gear is clean, clear reddish. i will change anyhowe.

I was not suspecting master cil problems or air, because the friction zone position hasnt changed. I must say that i have no play between de clutch handle and mc plunger. i read this could give problems. My hands are small..

The clutch is disengaging, but for 95%. after the disengage position  i have much more travel in the clutch handle left.

In the friction zone it becomes more difficult to control the drive pressure.

Lets do the oil change first and see further.

I let you guys know 🙂

 

 

[konrad]

33 minutes ago, robertbarnstijn said:

 I must say that i have no play between de clutch handle and mc plunger.

There must always (when hot and cold) be a small amount of free play there.

[robertbarnstijn]

Yes konrad, i will check of the little hole in the master cilinder is free. i understand the importance of that

[larro]

Hello. What was the verdict on this dragging problem. The clutch on my 2013 tri drags and trying to get it into neutral is a pain but with the engine cut it is sweet. I replaced the clutch and fluid and the lever feels good but it has done nothing when the engine is running. when the engine is running it runs sweet but when i managed to get it in gear the engine strains you can hear the different engine tone and it creeps forward. I thought trials is about control but with this problem i am straight away losing some of that control. Any input thanks.

[Tr1AL]

6 hours ago, larro said:

Hello. What was the verdict on this dragging problem. The clutch on my 2013 tri drags and trying to get it into neutral is a pain but with the engine cut it is sweet. I replaced the clutch and fluid and the lever feels good but it has done nothing when the engine is running. when the engine is running it runs sweet but when i managed to get it in gear the engine strains you can hear the different engine tone and it creeps forward. I thought trials is about control but with this problem i am straight away losing some of that control. Any input thanks.

@larro If you can obtain it where you are you could try Motorex Trial gear oil , in my experience it is less draggy in a trials clutch than most of the others that are popular with the trials community.

Edited Tuesday at 11:23 PM by Tr1AL

[larro]

Hello and thanks for the input. I an using the oil you suggested and it also says on the bottle   ( clutch optimised ). It seems to me that the activation of the clutch parts maybe do not  give enough movement to properly disengage the drive. Anybody have the same problem. Ta 

[konrad]

I assume you've read my website regarding the OSSA clutch.  Did you use Xiu's clutch pack preparation procedure? https://www.ossa-efi.com/home/my-upgrades/clutch-control-ring#h.twzu1hiimf5e

Although it's counterintuitive, revving the motor with the clutch disengaged seems to "break the plates free" and reduces drag.

You may need to mix old and new plates to find the optimal pack thickness.

I read a surprising thing recently in the 2018 GasGas Pro service manual.  It said to check the clutch pack height dimension under a load of 1600 N +/- 100 N (that's 150 to 170 kg of force).  But it does not explain how to go about doing that.

[larro]

Hello. Yes i did read that section and measured the  pack and it measured 9.8 from points around the pack so presumed that was a good pack from Xiu-rdi. I read a section on here about clutches and there was an Ossa owner saying the same about these clutches and how he fitted one and he was happy with the way it worked. 

[lotus54]

I’ve always used the only oil the importer in the States told me to use. 

 Maxima Extra 4 0-10W full synthetic.  It has always worked very well for me. Since it sounds like it used to work, but has gotten worse, of course bleed clutch. But I suggest also changing gearbox oil- making sure to drain it all (on later bikes bottom screw allows clutch side to drain, otherwise loosen all a bit and move cover out slightly).  Then fill with 450cc of oil. It will be well over the sign glass. That was made back when it only used 350cc, but OSSA found that the Italians were running 450 and not having any issues, while others using spec were. So I use that in all models (with appropriate hose routing). 

Clutch plates perhaps could use a ‘deglazing’ but I would try other things first. 

[Tr1AL]

On 1/8/2025 at 9:13 AM, larro said:

Hello and thanks for the input. I an using the oil you suggested and it also says on the bottle   ( clutch optimised ). It seems to me that the activation of the clutch parts maybe do not  give enough movement to properly disengage the drive. Anybody have the same problem. Ta 

@larro OK if that is not a thing that may help the only thing that I can think of if you have the correct clutch pack thickness would be air bubbles  in the hose that need bleeding out or failing/leaking  seals in the clutch hydraulic system or there needs to be less free play between the lever and the clutch plunger pin(with a spring) that sits between the lever and the piston of the clutch master cylinder for example if you set the lever so that it can move as far out/away  from the handle bar as it can be set by unscrewing the adjuster screw on the perch and then set the gap between the lever adjuster screw and the plunger pin to be the minimum possible you will get the max opening of the clutch plates possible to give the least amount of drag created by gearbox clutch oil/fluid for the throw of the lever , with this adjustment the pull at the clutch lever is the hardest on the finger , that is of course with all the other  parts of the system working as when the system was new. Also did you try ATF dexron III which is less viscous almost  like water  or Perhaps VI which I think is used in the later Sherco motors. Hope you find a solution soon . Best wishes Alan.

Edited Friday at 12:10 AM by Tr1AL

[larro]

Thank you for your combined input. The bike was second hand so was expecting things to be fixed. The clutch was/is a problem from the first time i started the engine as straight away it dragged as explained above. I changed the mineral oil in the master and expelled all the air and the lever felt good after but it still dragged. New motor oil and new clutch and the old clutch seemed ok and the pack measured the same as the new one so i was disappointed that the new clutch did not fix this problem. I was going to change the master cylinder fluid to magura royal blood as konrad mentioned but i cant see that stopping the dragg. He has also said that the cluch is not disengaging properly so i don't know. The thing is how many oils is someone supposed to try. Thanks.