atomant Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 At the St Davids trial on Sunday when Jake fell off and was hurt bad, (think he went to hospital and hope he’s alright ) whilst the observer went to attend to him, the next rider was pushing him to observe his ride regardless of Jake needing urgent attention. The lad was screaming in agony for Christ sake! I felt sickened by the whole affair.. When someone gets hurt, they must become the chief priority and everything else has to come second. This is all because they have to rush round to get finished to avoid time penalties.. Trials of this type must change from being a race to a thing of skill. Have less sections or give more time to complete or something else but change it to get the priorities in the right order. Inadvertently adding an element of speed adds unnecessary risk of injury for riders (and spectators moving between sections), especially when at its heart, its not a speed sport. It must be said that the organising club had safety high on their priority list with standard & air ambulance cover. Hats off to them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandifords Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Firstly, my comments were a general observation and not directed at Neath MCC who done a sterling job under the conditions! Secondly, The FIM rules adopted with the time penalty 'IN' the section is the way to go. Much better from a spectators viewpoint. The only thing I feel that needs looking at is something to stop everyone rushing around like crazy with the number 1 priority of getting finished without penalties at all costs. The whole feeling I got from the day was a hectic race. I agree there must be a time limit and I haven’t advocated getting rid of it, what I am saying is change the way it works to make it more effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Did they not stop the riders at the Scott Trial to let the helecopter land and attend to an injured rider, thus stopping the running time for theses riders and starting again when it was clear?? Maybe on this scenario the club officials could have done the same, I wasn't there so I don't really know how long the observer had to attend. Good on him for attending him and for the rider that was griping about time i just hope that your not injured one day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
as iow Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Maybe there should be an appeal system put in place so that if there is a hold up through a rider being hurt in a section or any unforseen incident, then time can be added on at the discretion of the C of course & ACU steward, as happened in last years scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Did they not stop the riders at the Scott Trial to let the helecopter land and attend to an injured rider, thus stopping the running time for theses riders and starting again when it was clear??Maybe on this scenario the club officials could have done the same, I wasn't there so I don't really know how long the observer had to attend. Good on him for attending him and for the rider that was griping about time i just hope that your not injured one day <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Trial got stopped to allow a helicopter to land & then from information provided by independant witnesses we applied an alteration of the time allowances that would hopefully be right for all riders directly & indirectly affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 The Trial got stopped to allow a helicopter to land & then from information provided by independant witnesses we applied an alteration of the time allowances that would hopefully be right for all riders directly & indirectly affected. Thanks for the verification Perce, in no way are we critisising the officials something has to give though. Make the sections harder(whether that be technical or a tight time limit to ride the section) to bring our riders on the same level as the European riders, to hopefully produce the next DL, then maybe more accidents will happen. It's a learning curve and hopefully some precautionery procedures can be put in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 I remember the World round in Osnabruck in Germany where the time limits became a necessity, some riders spending over an hour at one section, taking three or four minutes to ride it then haring round the rest of the lap, not exactly spectacular to watch. time limits for the top riders in sections is a must, a time limit on the trial is also important for Observers and riders alike. There is a big safety element involved with this for everyone, not just riders. I am a huge advocate of no stop but agree with other who have posted that something has to change but at the top end the next world contenders have to work on the same playing field as their continental counterparts. Until such times as the WTC gets back to what trials should be (IMHO No stop)instead of a circus, we have to give the likes of James Dabill the chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 I remember the World round in Osnabruck in Germany where the time limits became a necessity, some riders spending over an hour at one section, taking three or four minutes to ride it then haring round the rest of the lap, not exactly spectacular to watch. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I assume the observers can use the rule to ask the riders to attempt the section if they are waiting around too long. Failure to do so . 10 points is it not??Watch em get on their bikes and form an orderly cue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Sounds like a good Idea Atom, don't think they had a rule like that in 1993 though, might have helped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabber Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Whay not time limit each lap? 50% of the time for the first lap the 25% each for the remaining two. It's not like a club trial where they are looking at the section for the first time, but I acceptt they need to see how each one rides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 With the tight time limit the riders hopped into position and went, great to watch as the good guys do it with so much precision. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree Heath, as I said above, I thought it was great to watch and the way forward however, not to get off topic, its only going to be a matter of time before someone gets seriously hurt unless this 'time' issue is dealt with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 i overheard a couple of section observers chatting at the trial on Sunday and a comment i heard several times from different observers was that at least there is little doubt about points scored with the rules as they are... no stop caused all sorts or arguments about whether landing on a rock and momentaraly getting your balance was a 5 or not, did the bike stop forward motion for a fraction of a secound or not etc. Peoples opinions vary, and every observing rule is open to misinterpretation, every observer will observe differently the debate will go on. I think that it is right, as said before that the rules of stopping and hopping at BC level is right, but at club level it should be no stop. My reasons are it is a lot easier for the majority to ride, a lot easier for someone who wants to come into our sport to do and to disagree with the 'Quote' a lot easier to observe. Don't slate me Heath for disagreeing, just my opinion, I know a lot of observers that won't observe because it is too complicated, no stop is no stop dead easy, front wheel stops it's a 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subira Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 The time given to ride the event is plenty if they just got on with it from the out.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Absolutely - imagine what would happen with no time limit. Seen the hanging around the first section plenty of times - then its a mad dash to the finish. Time management is a fact of life - down to the rider to decide if its better to press on or hang around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 But it wouldn't be a problem if they just got on with it!!.. I stood at the first section, and for about an hour after the first Championship rider arrived there wasn't an attempt at the section... perhaps we should change our target here, not the time limit that is set but force the riders to ride the first lap within a certain percentage of their start time (as suggested above somewhere). The time given to ride the event is plenty if they just got on with it from the out.. From what i read of the report of the first Spanish championship round this weekend that is what they do.... seems that Dougie lost 10 marks on time on the first lap. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well its certainly a workable solution. I say give it a go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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