lotus54 Posted November 8 Report Share Posted November 8 On my original 2014 Explorer (sold a couple years ago) I broke the suspension linkage a couple of times. I bought some Titanium ones and they were great (with lube fittings). But the company no longer makes them. I suspect they didn’t sell very many at all. Since I like learning things and have been working on Fusion (3D CAD) I have been designing a new linkage. I am basing off 2015 links (larger main link) but going to change to needle bearings in the middle of the link, with lubrication passages. The other ones would be a lot more difficult to change from the bushings, but I can still put lube passages. I have 3D printed the parts so I can test fit and make sure I got dimensions correct. Measuring/comparing to stock- I think I’m right on. The Ti ones I bought all the fittings to grease, I used to do so after every ride since there were no seals at all and the new grease would help push out contaminates. The needle berarings I found do have seals, so I will see about not doing it nearly as much if they really are effective. I can get them made out of any material I want- just a matter of cost. Once I have verified all is how I want, I will send the CAD files to a couple manufactures and get prices. I expect a good steel would be a LOT cheaper than titanium, and while heavier, most still quite a lot stronger than the stock aluminium parts. It has been a fun project so far- I will keep posting as it moves along. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 Worthwhile project! To get some idea of titanium's cost, here is a company that sells titanium fasteners: https://www.probolt-usa.com/titanium/?page=3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted November 9 Author Report Share Posted November 9 I sent off the files to one company to get a quote in 4130 and Titanium. I will post up results. The test fittings with 3D printed parts were good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 If you are looking to source raw Titanium you might want to try Titanium Joe out of Kingston, Joe rides EM trials bikes and has access to a supply of used Ti material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 1 hour ago, lemur said: If you are looking to source raw Titanium you might want to try Titanium Joe out of Kingston, Joe rides EM trials bikes and has access to a supply of used Ti material. Great to know! Titanium Joe Inc. 1407 John Counter Blvd. unit 90-B Kingston ON, K7K-6A9 613-545-0563 Kingston 905-556-0289 Canada315-285-4414 USAsales@titaniumjoe.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted November 9 Author Report Share Posted November 9 Thanks! I do not have the machinery to make all these parts, and I’ve never machined Ti. I have made replacement ‘middle pin’ in aluminium, but not anything else. If I have the knee mill I want, I would give it a go. So to save money, I will spend $10k or so - ha! I may try making some other parts and perhaps the pin so I will contact the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 There would be a lot more demand for Cota linkage dogbones, more of them out there and the expensive stock part gets smashed easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted November 9 Author Report Share Posted November 9 Just now, lemur said: There would be a lot more demand for Cota linkage dogbones, more of them out there and the expensive stock part gets smashed easy. I do not have one to model. I would certainly like to give it a go. If you have a damaged one you could send I could model and 3D print to verify dimensions. I will know more when I get quote for costs of getting them made. May just be too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 Titanium is the ultimate if you need to ask the price you can't afford it material. Cota dogbone is a super simple design, you could sketch it out on a table napkin and if you can machine 2 holes with accuracy it will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted November 9 Author Report Share Posted November 9 2 minutes ago, lemur said: Titanium is the ultimate if you need to ask the price you can't afford it material. Cota dogbone is a super simple design, you could sketch it out on a table napkin and if you can machine 2 holes with accuracy it will work. Really need to have one to assure dimensions are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemur Posted November 9 Report Share Posted November 9 (edited) 32 minutes ago, lotus54 said: Really need to have one to assure dimensions are correct. Found one. You don't happen to live in eastern Ontario do you, trials riding here tomorrow if you can join us. ... to machine a cota link you would require a billet measuring 30mm x 30mm x 102mm Edited November 9 by lemur added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted November 10 Author Report Share Posted November 10 I am in NW Washington State- right across from Victoria, BC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted November 14 Author Report Share Posted November 14 I got one quote for the modified linkage in Ti. I think in the $850 range, plus getting two needle bearings for the centre link- getting rid of the bushings. I think that one is the highest stress (why OSSA when to a larger pin for 2015). My design has the pin back to original size so standard needle bearings with seal can fit in. Made in Ti rather than aluminium is should be more than strong enough. That is just the first outfit I tried- I was hoping for a lower cost but that is the quote. If I got 5 sets, it would be cheaper. Steel was cheaper, but not hugely (I will price that out also). These have lubrication fittings, to make daily servicing a LOT easier. Still no seals on any but the needle bearing, but I found if you can pump some grease through- it pushed most of the junk out of the bushing, making them last much longer. Anyone really interested, let me know. But I suspect cost is too high for most. (I’ve broken a couple linkages, that is why I am considering it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larro Posted November 16 Report Share Posted November 16 On 11/14/2024 at 3:59 PM, lotus54 said: I got one quote for the modified linkage in Ti. I think in the $850 range, plus getting two needle bearings for the centre link- getting rid of the bushings. I think that one is the highest stress (why OSSA when to a larger pin for 2015). My design has the pin back to original size so standard needle bearings with seal can fit in. Made in Ti rather than aluminium is should be more than strong enough. That is just the first outfit I tried- I was hoping for a lower cost but that is the quote. If I got 5 sets, it would be cheaper. Steel was cheaper, but not hugely (I will price that out also). These have lubrication fittings, to make daily servicing a LOT easier. Still no seals on any but the needle bearing, but I found if you can pump some grease through- it pushed most of the junk out of the bushing, making them last much longer. Anyone really interested, let me know. But I suspect cost is too high for most. (I’ve broken a couple linkages, that is why I am considering it) Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted November 17 Author Report Share Posted November 17 (edited) I looked up how much these cost in Ti when the place in Europe was making them several years ago- over $1000. I did some minor changes- fit my 3D printed parts to the bike to make sure things fit right and there is clearance and they fit. Not much room in there to make things much different, so really a change of material is about it. I don’t think enough room to put needle bearings on the front pivot and fitting in the rear (in the swingarm) would likely require machining the swingarm- and I doubt enough material to do it anyway. But the middle pin gets the most stress anyway (well, I think so) and certainly the most exposed to the elements. If anyone wants a set, let me know. I have not ordered one yet, still checking a few sources, but plan to do so I think. edit; The Czech made set I had also used the 16mm pin and I found it very robust- the bike is still out there running with the setup (I sold it a few years ago to try electric- but the EM had too short of range). They kept with the teflon bushings, which are a bit of a pain to get out (reinstalling is easy). Plus I think the bearings will be quite a lot easier on the pin. Edited November 17 by lotus54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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