steve fracy Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Well I beg to differ, I would be willing to bet that every one of the fast guys of that era (probably this one too) was doping or at least blood packing, Lance competed and won against other riders who were doing the same thing he was doing, everyone cheated and he just got caught because he beat the Europeans at their sport, every one else just has their fingers crossed that they don't get scrutinized When you look at other sports, athletes who pop just made a dumb mistake, the ones who don't got it right, and there are all kinds of things out there now that give similar results but are not banned At that level, if you don't cheat you don't win so its still pretty even Agreed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 At that level, if you don't cheat you don't win so its still pretty even That makes it all right then, they should give him back all his tour de france medals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 (edited) And the lies that he told to maintain his position, lies told to public office and under oath to congress? The lies he told to cancer sufferers? and the intimidation and bullying of anyone who dared tell the truth about him ? y'all sit easy with that? He's deliberately timed his confession, the statute of limitations has expired for a prosecution of his perjury. The 'but they all do that' and 'the ends justify the means' defence shows stunning naivety at best, and an appalling lack of morals at worst. The two post from U.S. members seem to endorse the 'win at all costs' mantra which includes lying, cheating, drug taking, bullying and intimidating? I do hope 0007, Mr. Armstrong and Mr. Fracy don't bring that repellent attitude to our sport, we're trying to introduce trials to kids! Edited March 2, 2013 by ham2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernnorm Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Well in a modern liberal America it is becoming legal to smoke weed in a new state each month and call unions between partners with identical plumbing a legal Marriage it seems like TOLERENCE is king to reason so cut him some slack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Ok, so you tolerate drug taking, cheating, bullying, lying under oath. Where do you draw the line ? Bit of domestic abuse ? Abusing state benefit ? Racism ? Pedofiles ? Tax evasion ? Horse in your lasagne ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scot taco Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I really,really do not get the whole cheating to win thing, no matter what the sport.If you have to cheat to win then it is not sports-it,s just bull.If I,ve gotta cheat to win then I don,t care to do it. I personally cannot support cheaters in any sport and don,t see how it can feel like you have actually won anything knowing you have cheated, even if everyone else was. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pschrauber Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 (edited) It's interesting to read such an old thread from 2006. Back then the background knowledge wasn't very evaluated. This has changed a lot. I liked the Tour de France a lot back then and Mr. Armstrong was one of my heros back then. I can still see the situation in my mind when he and a German rival where cycling together up a mountain in the Alpes and Lance made a by-by sign and just doubled up his speed leaving the rival along that could only look very frustrated shacking his head. It was unbelievable but we all thought it was real. Now I know there where some serious cheating involved and Mr. Armstrong is now in my personal opinion not a hero anymore I feel spoiled now. I might be even feel fooled a little bit by the other riders too ss they also cheated bur I am very sure now that Armstrong did cheat to perfection and this is my main problem. There are no sporting around anymore ... sadly as you never know if they are talented or just pumped up ... Edited March 2, 2013 by pschrauber 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 And the lies that he told to maintain his position, lies told to public office and under oath to congress? The lies he told to cancer sufferers? and the intimidation and bullying of anyone who dared tell the truth about him ? y'all sit easy with that? He's deliberately timed his confession, the statute of limitations has expired for a prosecution of his perjury. The 'but they all do that' and 'the ends justify the means' defence shows stunning naivety at best, and an appalling lack of morals at worst. The two post from U.S. members seem to endorse the 'win at all costs' mantra which includes lying, cheating, drug taking, bullying and intimidating? I do hope 0007, Mr. Armstrong and Mr. Fracy don't bring that repellent attitude to our sport, we're trying to introduce trials to kids! Hammy! Firstly, neither 0007 or I are from the US. I don't condone or support what Lance did. But, I am understanding enough to try and look at the situation and sport he was in at that time, and I CAN see how someone could feel like they had to blood dope and cheat, just to keep up to the competition! You don't know me at all, so making comments about my morals and hoping that I won't bring "that type of attitude" into trials is a bit absurd. None of us really know Lance Armstrong either(not even people who thought they did) so we can only comment of reports and what is speculated in the media. He is now gonna have to live with all of this the rest of his life, and in front of his kids! Why not just hope he CAN make right so many wrongs he has done to people. Have a great day! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Fair points, but who was he keeping up with ? It appears he was the one the rest had to match ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Well I beg to differ, I would be willing to bet that every one of the fast guys of that era (probably this one too) was doping or at least blood packing, Lance competed and won against other riders who were doing the same thing he was doing, everyone cheated and he just got caught because he beat the Europeans at their sport, every one else just has their fingers crossed that they don't get scrutinized When you look at other sports, athletes who pop just made a dumb mistake, the ones who don't got it right, and there are all kinds of things out there now that give similar results but are not banned At that level, if you don't cheat you don't win so its still pretty even Agreed! Firstly, I was wrong about your geographical location, please feel free to use that to side-step the relevance of the main issue we're dealing with. There's nothing absurd. Do you even look at, or take responsibility for, what you're posting and agreeing with on the internet for all to see? You originally endorsed a post that didn't condone the actions of a drug cheat, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. It looks to all like you agree with the immoral 'win at all cost/ everyone is using drugs so...' dogma. What other conclusion would the rest of the world draw from that? Are you just in denial or too proud to retract your post? We've only got your written 'agreement' on the immoral written post to go on. As for your asinine, fatuous remark ''you don't know me" how could I ?...and trying to further your argument by contesting the accuracy of first hand source material in the media? Time for me to be fatuous: Are you trialing tomorrow? What if your competitors are using performance enhancing drugs? Would you take drugs so you could beat them and win? Would you lie, cheat and bully in response to any inquisition? How ironic that your final valediction 'Have a great day' personifies your entire response to the situation; the in-genuine, insincere sentiment is hidden behind the mendacious ambiguity of the actual words...Lance Armstrong would be proud of you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Nice post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramit Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Firstly, I was wrong about your geographical location, please feel free to use that to side-step the relevance of the main issue we're dealing with. There's nothing absurd. Do you even look at, or take responsibility for, what you're posting and agreeing with on the internet for all to see? You originally endorsed a post that didn't condone the actions of a drug cheat, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. It looks to all like you agree with the immoral 'win at all cost/ everyone is using drugs so...' dogma. What other conclusion would the rest of the world draw from that? Are you just in denial or too proud to retract your post? We've only got your written 'agreement' on the immoral written post to go on. As for your asinine, fatuous remark ''you don't know me" how could I ?...and trying to further your argument by contesting the accuracy of first hand source material in the media? Time for me to be fatuous: Are you trialing tomorrow? What if your competitors are using performance enhancing drugs? Would you take drugs so you could beat them and win? Would you lie, cheat and bully in response to any inquisition? How ironic that your final valediction 'Have a great day' personifies your entire response to the situation; the in-genuine, insincere sentiment is hidden behind the mendacious ambiguity of the actual words...Lance Armstrong would be proud of you. Firstly, I was wrong about your geographical location, please feel free to use that to side-step the relevance of the main issue we're dealing with. There's nothing absurd. Do you even look at, or take responsibility for, what you're posting and agreeing with on the internet for all to see? You originally endorsed a post that didn't condone the actions of a drug cheat, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. It looks to all like you agree with the immoral 'win at all cost/ everyone is using drugs so...' dogma. What other conclusion would the rest of the world draw from that? Are you just in denial or too proud to retract your post? We've only got your written 'agreement' on the immoral written post to go on. As for your asinine, fatuous remark ''you don't know me" how could I ?...and trying to further your argument by contesting the accuracy of first hand source material in the media? Time for me to be fatuous: Are you trialing tomorrow? What if your competitors are using performance enhancing drugs? Would you take drugs so you could beat them and win? Would you lie, cheat and bully in response to any inquisition? How ironic that your final valediction 'Have a great day' personifies your entire response to the situation; the in-genuine, insincere sentiment is hidden behind the mendacious ambiguity of the actual words...Lance Armstrong would be proud of you. I can't believe I am reading this stuff....and twice no less. And those Canadians............they can be trouble!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Firstly, I was wrong about your geographical location, please feel free to use that to side-step the relevance of the main issue we're dealing with. There's nothing absurd. Do you even look at, or take responsibility for, what you're posting and agreeing with on the internet for all to see? You originally endorsed a post that didn't condone the actions of a drug cheat, if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. It looks to all like you agree with the immoral 'win at all cost/ everyone is using drugs so...' dogma. What other conclusion would the rest of the world draw from that? Are you just in denial or too proud to retract your post? We've only got your written 'agreement' on the immoral written post to go on. As for your asinine, fatuous remark ''you don't know me" how could I ?...and trying to further your argument by contesting the accuracy of first hand source material in the media? Time for me to be fatuous: Are you trialing tomorrow? What if your competitors are using performance enhancing drugs? Would you take drugs so you could beat them and win? Would you lie, cheat and bully in response to any inquisition? How ironic that your final valediction 'Have a great day' personifies your entire response to the situation; the in-genuine, insincere sentiment is hidden behind the mendacious ambiguity of the actual words...Lance Armstrong would be proud of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 fat-u-ous --- There he goes again! Can I be one too? I allways wanted to be impotent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 Steve we have both been called "Yankees" this week ................. And they say people from the USA are geographically ignorant MMM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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