Vertigo SOLD

[ChrisCH]

Back on topic - the question for the US trials market is whether the new Pres will push up the cost of trials bikes to replace other taxes and if so, whether Vertigo is seen as "Chinese" and as such gets the biggest hit in the trade war he is planning?

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/26/politics/trump-income-taxes-tariffs/index.html

Most trials bikes are european in origin and might not get hit too hard.  Whack job Reagan put a 45% tariff on Japanese bikes as Japan was the boogeyman back then.

Bad news for Volvo cars too?

[lemur]

Tax on trials bike sales sounds like a good way to make hundreds and hundreds of dollars lol 

[lineaway]

16 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

Back on topic - the question for the US trials market is whether the new Pres will push up the cost of trials bikes to replace other taxes and if so, whether Vertigo is seen as "Chinese" and as such gets the biggest hit in the trade war he is planning?

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/26/politics/trump-income-taxes-tariffs/index.html

Most trials bikes are european in origin and might not get hit too hard.  Whack job Reagan put a 45% tariff on Japanese bikes as Japan was the boogeyman back then.

Bad news for Volvo cars too?

 Nobody cares if Vertigo lives or dies. It would have been a nice `other` bike, But like the Ossa nobody wants a bike that might start!

[b40rt]

5 hours ago, lineaway said:

 Nobody cares if Vertigo lives or dies. It would have been a nice `other` bike, But like the Ossa nobody wants a bike that might start!

Manel Jané probably cares ?

[Tr1AL]

11 hours ago, b40rt said:

Manel Jané probably cares ?

I imagine Dougie Lampkin may care a great deal also.

[trapezeartist]

Way up near the start of this thread someone (ChrisCH I think) mentioned the virtues of "liquid hydrocarbons" as a fuel. That doesn't have to mean petrol, or any other petroleum derivative. There is a lot of work going into synthetic fuels and they have the advantage of running perfectly well in engines originally designed for petrol so all the millions of existing vehicles could use it. Even a pre-65 trials bike can go green, if you ignore the cloud of oil smoke following it around. A number of UK car racing classes are already using "sustainable" fuel (mostly alcohol-based) but synthetic fuels will come. Think of the chemical equation of the combustion of fuel. If you put energy in instead of taking energy out you can completely reverse it. At the moment the sustainable fuels are expensive, but economies of scale will bring that down. Then the only problem is how to produce enough electricity in a green way to support EVs, manufacture of synthetic fuel, domestic heat pumps and all the other things.

[ChrisCH]

22 hours ago, trapezeartist said:

Way up near the start of this thread someone (ChrisCH I think) mentioned the virtues of "liquid hydrocarbons" as a fuel.

Yup.  There is a big lot of BS around electric as an automotive fuel right now.  But you are correct that there are other alternatives to fossil hydrocarbons.  For trials bikes I think the issue is neither here nor there - we really do not use enough fuel to have any influence one way or another.  E85 is a step in the right direction but (as best I understand it) that requires fuel injection?  The Vertigo is - I think - the only non carburated bike at present?

Light cars will go electric - the trend is very strong and the air pollution in cities makes it inevitable.  Maybe not 100% of all cars but for city use it is going that way for sure.  I would buy an electric van if they were not so expensive.  For my usage it would be better than the current diesel.  I need a van big enough for two trials bikes and they are big money.

My wife likes the electric bike very much - the new Factor-e is really really good.  Again a bit too expensive right now to buy, but the running costs will be lower with no engine to service.  I cannot fault the bike - maybe a few kilos too heavy if you are really trying hard to find fault with it.

Road motorcycles is a hard one.  The little bikes for ride to work are OK in electric but bigger stuff doesn't cut it.  Without the car market going over to synthetic (non fossil) fuel its hard to see where the market for that fuel will come from, so hard to see the economic case for manufacturing it.

Assuming humans survive long enough there will come a point where you cannot buy petrol at a service station and it will only be in a (small) can for vintage stuff.  I think my TRS will be worn out by then 😁

[b40rt]

5 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

Yup.  There is a big lot of BS around electric as an automotive fuel right now.  But you are correct that there are other alternatives to fossil hydrocarbons.  For trials bikes I think the issue is neither here nor there - we really do not use enough fuel to have any influence one way or another.  E85 is a step in the right direction but (as best I understand it) that requires fuel injection?  The Vertigo is - I think - the only non carburated bike at present?

Light cars will go electric - the trend is very strong and the air pollution in cities makes it inevitable.  Maybe not 100% of all cars but for city use it is going that way for sure.  I would buy an electric van if they were not so expensive.  For my usage it would be better than the current diesel.  I need a van big enough for two trials bikes and they are big money.

My wife likes the electric bike very much - the new Factor-e is really really good.  Again a bit too expensive right now to buy, but the running costs will be lower with no engine to service.  I cannot fault the bike - maybe a few kilos too heavy if you are really trying hard to find fault with it.

Road motorcycles is a hard one.  The little bikes for ride to work are OK in electric but bigger stuff doesn't cut it.  Without the car market going over to synthetic (non fossil) fuel its hard to see where the market for that fuel will come from, so hard to see the economic case for manufacturing it.

Assuming humans survive long enough there will come a point where you cannot buy petrol at a service station and it will only be in a (small) can for vintage stuff.  I think my TRS will be worn out by then 😁

E V car sales are in free fall, the only thing going down faster is their depreciation .

[Tr1AL]

@ChrisCH just FYI  EFi Trials bikes also now include SHERCO/SCORPA and of course the HONDA Montesa 4RT was EFi before the rest. not including the 2nd to use it OSSA TRi  bikes as they are no longer in production.

Edited Sunday at 06:30 PM by Tr1AL

[larro]

15 hours ago, b40rt said:

E V car sales are in free fall, the only thing going down faster is their depreciation .

Tesla sales are not

[ChrisCH]

15 hours ago, b40rt said:

E V car sales are in free fall, the only thing going down faster is their depreciation .

Nope.  EV are taking a bigger share of the market globally as time passes.  You are wrong.  There has been a slow down here in the UK as the subsidies and tax advantages have been reduced.  The Chinese market is very much moving to BEV.

Some of the car companies that sell big gas guzzler models are kicking back to try to persuade the regulatory authorities to allow the non fossil hydrocarbon options rather than the ban on ICE altogether.  I don't really know if this will work or not.  What seems most likely to me is the growth of low emission areas in cities and the wealthy that buy these sad manhood substitutes will have an EV for the city and a petrol phallus model for the out of town drive.

Whatever.  I don't much care when it comes to cars.  The #1 issue for me and all of us here is the potential prohibition of ICE motorcycles after '35.  If this were to happen at least there is comfort in the fact that the new (EV) trials bikes are every bit as good as the petrol models.  Should be a good secondhand market by then as well.

The big unknown is if the Chinese manufacturers enter the trials bike market.  I have no view on that.  The Artic Leopard (sorry - I put "snow" last post - my bad) might be the bridgehead.  https://www.arctic-leopard.com/

[ChrisCH]

Hmm..  The link for the international site doesn't show the trials stuff.  UK importer site is better and has the two trials bikes:

https://www.arcticleopard.co.uk/arctic-leopard-models.html#trial

No idea if anyone has ever bought one.

[b40rt]

13 hours ago, ChrisCH said:

Nope.  EV are taking a bigger share of the market globally as time passes.  You are wrong.  There has been a slow down here in the UK as the subsidies and tax advantages have been reduced.  The Chinese market is very much moving to BEV.

Some of the car companies that sell big gas guzzler models are kicking back to try to persuade the regulatory authorities to allow the non fossil hydrocarbon options rather than the ban on ICE altogether.  I don't really know if this will work or not.  What seems most likely to me is the growth of low emission areas in cities and the wealthy that buy these sad manhood substitutes will have an EV for the city and a petrol phallus model for the out of town drive.

Whatever.  I don't much care when it comes to cars.  The #1 issue for me and all of us here is the potential prohibition of ICE motorcycles after '35.  If this were to happen at least there is comfort in the fact that the new (EV) trials bikes are every bit as good as the petrol models.  Should be a good secondhand market by then as well.

The big unknown is if the Chinese manufacturers enter the trials bike market.  I have no view on that.  The Artic Leopard (sorry - I put "snow" last post - my bad) might be the bridgehead.  https://www.arctic-leopard.com/

We can agree, EV for virtue signalling, ICE for travelling.

[b40rt]

13 hours ago, larro said:

Tesla sales are not

And ?

[ChrisCH]

10 hours ago, b40rt said:

We can agree, EV for virtue signalling, ICE for travelling.

Nope.  Like them or not (I aint keen) the EV is the future.  The ICE is in its death throes.  Most governments will ban new ICE light cars at some point.

The big question is therefore motorbikes.  Currently there is no real agreement about bikes.  Most European countries (inc UK) are looking at ICE bikes banned later than cars.  2040 is the current year (proposed) here.  Lots of time for an alternative to be developed.

The market is running faster than this because for many people an EV car is a better option than an internal combustion model.  So there is a real possibility that traditional fuels will become more difficult to buy sooner than expected.  Again not a problem for trials as we have a container with petrol in the van.  For me the concern is road motorcycles.  Small tanks mean frequent filling.  A diesel car will do maybe 800 - 1,000Km on a fill, a petrol bike maybe 200 - 300Km.  Eventually you will need an app to find petrol as it is phased out.

The electric road bikes like Zero are a bit rubbish at present.  They are stupid money too.  Trials will go electric long before road bikes.