motovita Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 Can anyone here elaborate on the operation of the PRBR? Specifically I'm wondering if it could serve as the sole rear brake, my disability makes a right foot brake useless for me. I've found a couple of online reports of experienced riders removing their clutch levers and using the PRBR lever from the non clutch model and in at least one case removing the rear brake pedal. I really can't imagine riding a dirt bike without a clutch but i have no significant experience with electric bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 I'm fairly new to the PRBR and have only done about 3 trials with it. Having previously had a FRB, I am still teaching my finger to use it in a progressive manner. Sometimes I just give it a small pull and expect the full effect, and other times I seem to pull it all the way back whatever. It's just a matter of getting used to it, I hope. I've also found the PRBR lever a bit difficult to reach at times. I had a rather alarming descent at the last trial when I missed the PRBR lever, then grabbed for anything in a hurry and got the clutch. More "getting used to" required. I don't use the clutch but I wouldn't remove it. I did consider replacing the clutch with the rear brake for a better feel, but I do want to learn to use the clutch someday. I don't think the PRBR totally replaces the rear brake either. Sometimes you need to lock the back wheel and only the friction brake will do that except in extreme conditions. You also have to learn that you can't feather from brake to throttle with the PRBR (or FRB) so sometimes you need to release the PRBR near the bottom of something and use a tiny bit of rear brake as you are transitioning to the throttle. If you open the throttle while the PRBR is on, nothing happens, so you give some more throttle, and then you get a bit of a surprise when you do come off the PRBR! I wish they had given the thing a better name too. It's such a mouthful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 (edited) The problem with relying solely on regeneration for braking is that the battery's state of charge influences how much regeneration can be performed. You can't put any energy into a fully-charged battery. Theoretically, it would be possible to use energy to actively decelerate the bike when the battery is in a high state of charge. But that's not really the point of regenerative braking. Have you looked at Clake for a solution to your disability? https://www.clake.com.au/clake-two-dual-standard-control/ This might be a less expensive option if it would fit with the existing clutch master cylinder: https://www.clake.com.au/slr/ Edited February 11 by konrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovita Posted February 11 Author Report Share Posted February 11 (edited) 5 hours ago, konrad said: The problem with relying solely on regeneration for braking is that the battery's state of charge influences how much regeneration can be performed. You can't put any energy into a fully-charged battery. Theoretically, it would be possible to use energy to actively decelerate the bike when the battery is in a high state of charge. But that's not really the point of regenerative braking. Have you looked at Clake for a solution to your disability? https://www.clake.com.au/clake-two-dual-standard-control/ This might be a less expensive option if it would fit with the existing clutch master cylinder: https://www.clake.com.au/slr/ Thanks guys, I had assumed that the regenerative load would be constant and just wasted in the case of a fully charged battery. In your description the PRBR would have little to no braking effect if the battery was fully charged, that would make it useless as a stand alone brake, I assume that would also be the case with the FRB. I'm currently running a Rekluse left rear brake with the stock clutch (on an enduro bike), which is a compromise, one of the Clake products might be an improvement on that. Now I'm wondering if I could ride an e bike with no clutch and a left rear brake, I really can't fathom how to control a dirt bike without a clutch, although I know there are those who do it. I have no illusions of riding Trials competitions, I just want to ride. Edited February 11 by motovita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrad Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Yes, the FRB is just a special case of the PRBR and would have the same battery-charging problem. Personally, I feel having the same control methodology across all my motorcycles is important. Otherwise, it's too easy to do the wrong thing in an emergency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 The PRB is an interesting device but I agree with the above analysis that it is not a suitable substitute for a rear brake. My immediate thought to your original post is that on kids trials bikes like Oset the rear brake is where the clutch lever should be as is the case on a pedal cycle. (US push bike spec is other hand - really odd - French do it too). Can you get a ride to see how it works for you? The Oset 24 is just about big enough for an adult. Once you experience not having a clutch it will become clear. You have - in effect - an "automatic" and seperate front and back brakes. Would that work for you? The EM Escape might be worth a look if you need a saddle and just want to ride for fun. I am sure it would be possible to link up the LH lever to the rear brake as the system is hydraulic and should provide the pressure for the rear caliper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovita Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 5 hours ago, ChrisCH said: The PRB is an interesting device but I agree with the above analysis that it is not a suitable substitute for a rear brake. My immediate thought to your original post is that on kids trials bikes like Oset the rear brake is where the clutch lever should be as is the case on a pedal cycle. (US push bike spec is other hand - really odd - French do it too). Can you get a ride to see how it works for you? The Oset 24 is just about big enough for an adult. Once you experience not having a clutch it will become clear. You have - in effect - an "automatic" and seperate front and back brakes. Would that work for you? The EM Escape might be worth a look if you need a saddle and just want to ride for fun. I am sure it would be possible to link up the LH lever to the rear brake as the system is hydraulic and should provide the pressure for the rear caliper. I'm going to look at an Escape XR tomorrow. It would be ideal to ride with just right and left brake levers, would it work for me?, that's the big question. I'm trying to picture picking my way up a steep rocky hill without a clutch and I can't envision it. I don't think a short test ride will answer the question since I expect that it would take quite some time for me to learn to ride an e bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted February 13 Report Share Posted February 13 18 hours ago, motovita said: I'm going to look at an Escape XR tomorrow. It would be ideal to ride with just right and left brake levers, would it work for me?, that's the big question. I'm trying to picture picking my way up a steep rocky hill without a clutch and I can't envision it. I don't think a short test ride will answer the question since I expect that it would take quite some time for me to learn to ride an e bike. The bike will climb a steep rocky hill very well. The electric motor gives enough power at low revs to tackle most stuff. The big thing to get your head round is the lack of a flywheel. When you roll the throttle off the bike stops. It takes a bit of time to get used to but I am sure you will find it OK. You need a clutch on a petrol bike so you can build power on the engine without forward motion. Electric is a different mindset. The lack of a clutch is more an issue if you want to power the front wheel up from stationary or very low speed. You need to compress the forks and blip the throttle. To be fair I need the same technique on my Honda CRF but my TRF will lift the wheel on the clutch very easily. I hope you enjoy the Escape and it solves your issue. If money were no object I would buy one tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovita Posted February 14 Author Report Share Posted February 14 I looked at the Escape XR, I'm impressed with the build quality, the size and configuration were good for me. I didn't bother to ride it in the small paved parking lot. Now I'm wondering if I should get the X, without the clutch. A left hand brake is a must have for me and it would be much nicer to just have one lever up there. Then I started thinking about the Escape R, which I haven't seen, it's only an inch or so lower seat than the XR and that might be an advantage to me in the future but I really want to avoid the monkey on a football feeling that sitting on a Trials bike gives me. The next thing I'm wondering is if I could build some lower footpegs for the bike, my legs are fairly long even though weak. Lots to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovita Posted Monday at 10:47 PM Author Report Share Posted Monday at 10:47 PM (edited) I've accepted that I'll need a brake master cylinder on the handlebar and I've learned that operating a clutch and brake lever simultaneously with one hand is far from ideal, so I think I should get an E bike and give up on a clutch. The Escape X looks really good, it's readily available and reasonably priced, but I have one problem with it. The only way I can mount and dismount a full sized motorcycle is to step on one foot peg while on the side stand then swing my leg over, there's no way the Trials type side stand on the EM will support that. If I could ride standing all the time like I used to I'd get a Trials bike, of course if I could do that I'd be able to swing my leg over a motorcycle. It seems like such a silly thing to get between me and a new motorcycle but I can't see a good way around it. Edited Monday at 10:48 PM by motovita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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