Talking To Mx Parent

[sirhc]

When I dropped my son off at school today I began talking to one of the moms who's son is a few years older than mine and he races motocross.She was going on about how fast he was and about how he does the big triples and that he has a KTM deal where he gets a bike,parts and clothes and who knows what else.After talking for a few minutes it turns out her kid doesn't even win the big races like at Loretta Lynn's only like top five.After that I had to brag that my kid was a trials national champion.She then asked right away who he was sponsored by.I said nobody.She got this look on her face like

I then began to explain to her that they sell more CRF 450's in SoCal in one year than all the trials bikes in the hole U.S. and that only like 3 guys in the U.S. that make a living at it. She couldn't understand why we did it if there was no money in it. I tried to tell her how great it was and how wonderful the people are but,she didn't get it and I'm not always the best at expressing myself

On the way home I began thinking about motocross and everything said here in this forum and as much as I want to see a U.S. world champ. and would help in any way I could I don't think it is the answer to getting more people into trials.I don't think motocross got more popular because of Danny LaPorte or Brad Lackey "the first U.S. motocross world champs" It was more of Marty Smith,Bob Hannah,later Ricky Johnson,Jeremy Mcgrath and now it gets even more exposure because of Bubba since he is black.My point is,all these guys are in the U.S. for us to see.

I don't have the answers by any means but, for my two cents worth here it is.

The nationals be more spectator friendly like Donner was or like Lanes idea of having the "exibition" sections later in the day for everybody to watch.

I also think about how Supermoto got so big so fast and that was because Jeff Ward and Jeremy Mcgrath where at the first ones and all the bike magazines followed them.It does us no good when only we see Carmicheal standing next to his Scorpa,we need him to ride a national and bring the media with him.

I have other little thoughts but, this is getting to long But,I must say we all need to do our part like this last weekend when we did a Demo for Bill Markham at a local bike shops open house.We talked to alot of people about it and there was two guys that I think will make it out and try it,and thats a start.

Edited April 16, 2006 by sirhc

[dman]

A USA world contender who gets top five or wins it will get some press.

But those ideas down the bottom there would work as well, however I hope lance armstrong doesn't show up at one of our neta events. I'd be running over media people on the loop. But get a respectable motocycle guy to go full out into trials and that would help.

edit: Not to rain on that parents parade, but you don't think she embellished her story? Sounds kinda made up to me, lots of people say they are fast and could lie to sponsors to get stuff or ride the Expert novice class.

Edited April 12, 2006 by Dman

[nsaqam]

I agree that it was the U.S. riders in the U.S. that made MX so popular over here. That's because the U.S. National series is considered to have most of the best riders in the world. I don't believe we can reach this point anytime soon in trials but imagine the time when the best riders throughout the world decide they have to come to America and race in OUR National series to compete against the very best riders. It happened in MX and it may be possible in trials as well.

As Dman says, a few top American finishes in the preeminent WTC would do alot to raise the interest level over here. From here , who knows where it can go? Heaven knows we have the population and surely the wealth to produce some top talent. From what I've been learning, we may be headed in that direction already with some of our youngsters displaying incredible talent and tenacity.

I also think MX may be about to head into a downward direction with very expensive 4 strokes that are way too loud ridden by kids who break far too many bones to be economically or ecologically sustainable. Maybe the '70s trials boom will happen 30 years later than expected! I hope so!!!!

[mich lin]

That's some fine input guys!

Just to clarify the use of afternoon qualifed sections, that's not my idea! The women's world trials championship and the men's world indoor uses that foremat. I simply lifted the concept from there.

The El Trial De Espana has used spectator friendly exhibition sections for years. The only differnce is that they require ALL the top class riders to ride those sections. In the world indoor foremat and the women's world championship foremat, only the best few get to transfer to the tough final sections. The rest of the field becomes part of the gallery.

[OntTrials]

I drew the following comparison on another trials site to try and look at things from a different angle. In the grand scheme of offroad competition, I've always found trials and speedway to be kissing cousins, so.....

How many in the US flocked to buy alcohol-burning Jawa's and take up speedway when Bruce Penhall won the world title back in his day? In case you didn't get in line and snag a bike due to the rush for them, there was another chance when Billy Hamill won in the 90's. I seem to recall the coverage in the US press was about the same for each. Shouldn't that have caused great hordes to park their MX bikes and learn to turn left at full lock?

I've ridden speedway bikes. They're an absolute hoot, and cheap to boot if you aren't looking for the latest lay-down Weslake. So why don't I have one? Same reason people watch trials (or try it) and never compete. It's a cool experience, fun to goof around with. But enough to commit to a series and all the gear?... Nah.

Anyone know who the current title holder is? Yet in Europe, the speedway GP's pull in tens of thousands of screaming spectators per round. North American (read...US) flocks to events that exhibit in-your-face, one-on-one battles with a personality you either love or hate.... MX, Supermoto, NASCAR, WWE wrestling. Trials requires too much thought, work and patience. It's easier to buy a CRF450 with oodles of trick parts, put on all the armour and sit on the pickup tailgate feeling like a superhero ... before you even start the bike. Who cares what your lap times are, inside that helmet, you're a star.

[nsaqam]

You make some excellent points Tom. The difference as I see it is that when you watch flattrackers nobody says "No way are they going to make that left hand turn" I hear these type of comments continuously at a trial. Nobody is amazed at the talent exhibited at a flattrack although I'm sure it takes a considerable amount of talent to do it. Everyone, without exception, is amazed at the talent on display at a trial.

Another advantage trials has over MX and speedway is the space and equipment requirements of the track based sports, not to mention the increasingly important noise issue. I could set up a trial with indoor and outdoor type sections in one of my 20 acre pastures using nothing more than my Bobcat. I could change its severity and configuration at will and still preserve the field for grazing (if I had animals) Not only are trials bikes quieter than MX bikes or speedway bikes but they also rarely have 30 - 40 of them at full revs simultaneously. As I mentioned before, the costs for MX have recently gone through the roof with the unwise adoption of the 4 stroke engine. Yearly, and sometimes twice yearly top ends are in the $2000 range per. Neglect to do your top end or change the oil and you're talking $4k+ for a grenaded engine.

With skyrocketing medical costs how long will it be before the MX tracks can no longer afford their insurance if they can find it at all? The risk of serious injury is much higher at a MX race than at a trial mainly due to the speed and the proximity of other competitors.

For these reasons and many others I believe that in our increasingly crowded and insanely litigious society the conditions are perfect for a rapid growth of trials for better or for worse. Get trials some good exposure, point out the ecologically friendly nature, the low risk of serious injury, the neighbor friendly decibel levels, and showcase some awesome talent and folks just might buy into this sport in a huge way.

Thanks

Ken Umpierre

[mich lin]

nsaqam, I'm sitting here with my leg hurting from my 1999 MX crash! I often joke that I should have bought the Red Ferrari insted of the darn big bore YZ 4 stroke MX machine, it would have been a cheaper mid life crisis.

You both make some interesting points, in fact I was there when Bruce won the World Title in the LA Olympic stadium in 1980. It was cool!

The US Speedway riders still have a good impact on the world championship, unlike US trials riders. In fact one of my buddies was on the US team not to long ago.

It's hard to argue with nsaqam's point about not needing fancy tracks for trials. Plus our noise advantage, or should I say lack of it compared to speedway or MX. Also, our sport is just about the safest form of motorcycling on or off the pavement that there is.

I know, my leg hurts right now but not from trials. From MX!

Edited April 12, 2006 by Mich Lin

[sirhc]

I was going to bring up the speedway thing to but,my first post was getting to long.I was watching Speed Channel last year and they had speedway on and there was a U.S. rider there that was in the top 3 or 5 in the world championship and he gets no press in the U.S.. I had never heard of him before or since I stumbled upon the show. I think a trials champ would be the same way just a little blurb in Bits & Pieces in Dirt Bike and thats it.

I have also tried a lot of cool things and only done it once.I think that is because I already have enough hobbies and don't want to give them up.We all hate change and changing hobbies can be a major life change not to mention money. The answer....We all have ten kids or so, and have them ride trials!Then they have ten and so on.I think Texas has this plan I'm going to get to work on it tonight, I only have three.

Edited April 16, 2006 by sirhc

[brian r]

If you think Speedway needs a lot of room, you've never been to the track in Owego NY.

BTW, don't confuse Speedway with Flat Track.

[drhud]

You guys are nuts! I loved the Speedway reference and here are a couple more.. any body start road racing motorcycles, downhill skiing, or since the Man has been mentioned.. bicycle racing?? Of course not, yet we have a legitimate Moto GP contender and winner of the American round in Nicky Haden, World Cup winner and Poster boy of the Olympics in Bode Miller and of Course 7 time tour de France winnner in Lance, who by the way is the second American to dominate that race.. anyone here of Greg Lemond? The point being, a World Champion does not guarantee an increased popularity or participation in the sport. You have a 9 time National Champion in Geoff Aaron, yet who has heard of him outside the trials community??

Then, you fault Geoff for not competing in the World Championships?? If dominating the sport here in America doesn't promote the sport, how could mediocre finishes across the World help? Since you guys like the MX comparisons... Ever hear of Bob Hannah? Great rider right? Yet he raced in the USA at a time when the best racers were in Europe. Even now, Stephan Everts, multi time world champ, and another great rider, races in Europe when the fastest racers are here in the USA. Does this discredit either of these two guys? Of course not, Hannah and the rest of the guys of his era, helped put MX on the map. How many Americans care about whats going on in the rest of the world with any sport? We still think our hockey, baseball and basketball teams are the best, yet they get beat consitently by the rest of the world. Another example... supermoto... born here in America, quickly died here, but was kept alive in Europe where they have learned how to dominate. Then the likes of Jeremy McGrath, Jeff Ward and Doug Henry resurrect the sport. They quickly give it credibility and dominate here in America. So should they pack up and do the world circuit? No, stay here develope a fan base which leads to interest in the sport and thus the success of the sport here. They are so succesful at this, that the world top factory teams are sending over their best riders to compete in the US Series ( Same goes for woods racing..GNCC). This is a sport that has virtually no practice areas, yet racers are willing to travel hours and pay $200 a day for track time and tires just to practise!! The factories know that America is a gold mine waiting to be tapped. With 250 million people, they know they only need to get a small piece of the pie to increase their profits. Why are there no Trials factories willing to do the same?

Bottom line, trials on the local level is boring to watch and also gives the perception that it is easy. If you ever walked an MX or SX track you generally get the impression that some of the obstacles or impossible, yet you get on the bike and they seem easier. Then your able to do the same jumps as the pros, which makes you feel like a pro. (kind of like golf, you hit a great shot and all of a sudden you believe you have what it takes to be a pro). Yet you walk your line at a trials event and it seems somewhat "easy". BUT when you make your attempt, your realize how difficult it actually is. Ever video tape yourself while riding? Kind of humbling. Your riding up huge obstacles and doing some crazy lines, yet when you watch it on video, everything looks so small and easy. I know it takes talent to ride a trials bike, yet how do you convince the general public it is skillful and challenging when it doesn't appear so?

As far as TV, soemone mentioned poker being a joke. Yet, poker get a higher rating than Supercross!

Just about any sport that is succesful here, is NOT an individual sport. Skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking etc have all incorporated heads up racing to help draw more fans. Snowboarding even making it into the olympics. Not sure where I am goign with this, but it just popped into my head.

The topic of how to produce an American world champ is all over this BB. Alan pretty much nailed it when he said something to the affect that even with 250 million people, someone still MUST WANT to be World Champ. Why should someone aspire to that? The money and popularity is mediocre at best. Today, unlike years ago, kids have sooo many options just in motorcyle racing, never mind all the other sports. Any of the othe moto options have more potential for fame and fortune. Today, its all about the money. With it comes the big house, fancy cars and the girls. Isn't that whats all over the TV??

With all this critism, I really must thank all the people that work hard to keep this sport going. Whether or not the sport is going in the right direction or not, these people are still doing what it takes, and all for the love of the sport, to let the rest of us enjoy it. Its one thing to sit back and point the finger and say what you would do, but when you get off your ass and do something about it, then I'll have some respect for your opinions.

[nsaqam]

DrHud, you're saying the same thing as I am but we draw different conclusions from it. I've said that mediocre finishes in the WTC would mean nothing to us self absorbed Americans. I've said that the best MXers in the world come here to compete with the best. I've said that it would take winning championships in the WTC for people in the US to get interested. I've used Greg LeMond and Lance Armstrong as examples of this in the TdF. I've said that before these 2 guys the TdF was a 2 minute news blurb, and now thanks to winning CHAMPIONSHIPS the TdF is covered live from beginning to end in the US. Why cannot it be so with trials? Do we care who the Arena Football League Champ is, or the World Football League Champ is? But we all know who the NFL champion is because the NFL is considered the top rung on the football ladder. It takes winning at the HIGHEST level to be newsworthy and to get us interested. The World Baseball Classic is a good example as well. We get beat bad but put the Japanese team up against the Yankees or the Cubs in a 7 game series and the Japanese will be spanked 9 times out of ten. We are only interested in the top and our National Trials Championship isn't considered the top, YET! I think it could get there but it saddens me that many in this community are happy with mediocrity or worse on the world stage. Of course it should be fun and all the 200 or so folks racing at my local MX track are having fun but out of that group comes the Bob Hannah's, the Ricky Johnson's, the David Bailey's, the Ricky Carmichael's and the James Stewart's who are without question the best in the world at what they do. Why cannot it be the same in trials? Fun but still producing the best in the world.

I've surely seen alot more trials bikes in this area around Duluth since the WTC started coming here in '02 and I've heard non motorcycle people mention trials much more often as well. This interest was spurred despite the dearth of American competitors. You guys sell short, it seems to me, the excitement, amazement, and interest that the WTC brings to normal Americans! It profoundly affected me and Half a Tire Right and my daughter and we all got into the sport because of it. Many others I know are also considering or actively searching for ways to get into the sport. The WTC is in no way too boring, too cerebral, or too slow to catch our interest. Quite the opposite IMO. I know of no other motorsport where one can get as close to the action as in this one, where one can stand on top of a 16 foot splatter wall and watch the worlds best attempt to ride it, where one can dip his toes into the very stream the worlds best are riding through 5 feet from you! Where you can hold the world champs bike while he tightens his boots during practice and attempts to play mind games with his competitors. I have developed a raging passion for this sport based on going to 2 WTC event and watching the worlds best do the impossible. It seems to me that some of you who've been in the sport are satisfied with the status quo. I'm not and I truly hope for the day the best trialers in the world come to America to compete with the best.

[nsaqam]

And yes DrHud, sales of road racing bikes have gone up dramatically in the US since we started winning championships against the best.

And DrHud I have gotten off my a** by helping bring the best trialers to Duluth but far more importantly by bringing my children with me and sparking their interest in this sport and doing what it takes to instill in them a desire to be the BEST in the world!! So get off my a** and have some pride in being American and wanting Americans to be the BEST in the world! I'll never apologize for that!

Poker on TV is a joke and if you don't think trials on any level are more exciting that poker maybe you need to rethink your sport choices!

Flame away, I can take it, I'm an American!

[nsaqam]

Wouldn't all you veteran trialer LIKE to see the Martin Belairs and the others who've invested so heavily in this sport get the monetary rewards their long, hard work deserves. I don't even know them but I sure would.

[alan bechard]

I've surely seen alot more trials bikes in this area around Duluth since the WTC started coming here in '02 and I've heard non motorcycle people mention trials much more often as well. This interest was spurred despite the dearth of American competitors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just to look at one section, pulled somewhat out of context, and I guess I would ask, has having the WTC really developed much interest in the Duluth club's? Has it made their membership rise from previous levels? I wonder, and would be interesting to see the club membership statistics over the past couple of years.

I am not sure, but I do not believe that having the WR here in STRA is increasing our numbers immediately, hopefully it will be a follow on effect.

I would also put to you, and you will probably take this argumentatively instead of the way I intend it, but do you think you notice Trials a lot more because now you are involved?

For instance, I never paid that much attention to Chevrolet trucks, but when I bought a white Z71 I was astounded at the number of them out there. Because I just noticed them, did not mean everyone had just got them.

May be way off base, or it might be the same thing.

[nsaqam]

No Alan, I completely understand your point about your Z71, same thing with my Audi. I'm sure that's partly the reason for more notice of trials things.

As for our Duluth club, we don't have one in Duluth. The nearest one is the UMTA based in southern MN. Great club but only 1 event is within 100 miles of me. Half a Tire Right and I have discussed the possibility of starting a club but would like to talk to Steve Ahlers about the process and prospects. I'd think it would be doable and would relish the challenge and the opportunity.