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[the artist formerly known as ish]

Firstly, this is by no way a knock against any events, just an observation, of what I have seen happening over the past few years, any nationals that I have attended in this time have all been great fun events, and some I didn't attend would of probably prooved my observations wrong.

Using myself as a gauge in National trials events I have noticed the scores dropping, to the point if you have a single dab you are likely to be beat.

I know it isn't my riding that has improved, but rather the sections are just getting easier.

The last four rounds of the US series, some support riders have ridden three events for the sum total of three points.

I know many of the same riders used to ride the same classes and returned with scores in the teens per lap.

Are we getting too easy ?

I don't want sections to get bigger, the US riders ride big well, I think the sections could do with a more technicality, turn, flat ground big up is not the way to improve the young riders, without making the sections any more dangerous, I think the scores could be a lot higher without higher risk.

At the first two rounds [which I attended] I saw technical parts of a section that every rider in the trial had to negotiate, the cool thing was, after watching a pro rider clean what looked to be mega big up and then drop off, they proceeded to loose a couple of points on the technical corner.

This in my mind is a good thing, and more technical and less big is a better way to attract more riders into the top classes, than the big and scary looking stuff they ride now.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

This is the link to the NATC results page, and results can be veiwed from the past few years, before that, it's just the final standings which doesn't give loop or event scores.

It isn't hard to see which events include terrain with moisture involved in the section difficulty.

link > http://www.natctrials.org/results.htm

[alan bechard]

Call it the Phsyquie or whatever, but we had a long discussion on the STRA board about section difficulty and the complaint of several folks was that it was too much tight and technical (referring to our Sportsman class) and not enuogh of the bigger obstacles.

Not sure if that applies to the instance that you are speaking of in the nationals or not.

I think there are many people in the trials community that would rather just see big hits, logs, walls then the tight and technical stuff.

I know many of the kids that I worked with at TTC during the Youth Nationals were much much, much happier doing logs and steps then when we worked turns and balance. I think that carries through to the adults as well.

[titanium]

I think the sections are too easy (my opinion) There should be a few sections that are very hard, not necessarily big. The pros and experts should ride the same line in these sections, then all classes could compare how they rode as compared to other classes. We now have a lot of intermediate riders riding nationals. When I started you had to be an expert or prove you were at that level. I realize we don't want to hurt anyone, but there is always the option to punch a five if you don't want to ride the section.

[bulsher]

What ever happened to the section orchestration formula ??? When the pro class has multiple scores under 10 points that is BS. There is supposed to be a course marshall and a inspection of the sections to make sure that the section difficulty is up to snuff. As in the other discussions about our young riders being able to step up their game, how can this happen when the NATC series is a bunch of Fun Trials; IT IS A NATIONAL SERIES, not local events; Hopefully the rest of them will be reasonable!

[the artist formerly known as ish]

I think there are many people in the trials community that would rather just see big hits, logs, walls then the tight and technical stuff.

I know many of the kids that I worked with at TTC during the Youth Nationals were much much, much happier doing logs and steps then when we worked turns and balance.  I think that carries through to the adults as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the first thing James picked up on when doing the US trials schools, and I consider to be the weakest link in the US riders arsenal, it's no good being good at the big stuff, if you can't get to the big stuff.

The strongest all round rider in the US, on both technical, big, wet and dry, is Geoff, in the past 12 years only ex world round contenders with the ability to ride all section types and conditions have been able to challenge him.

A complicated set of rocks on the ground are has hard if not harder than the big rock with a twenty foot drop off one side, but the consequences of failure are a lot different, one has more chance of a trip to the hospital than five penalty points.

Duluth last year is a good example, the big sections the lower riders punched a five and didn't even attempt, both Doug, and Bou, had horrific get off's on em, yet the sections in the stream took as many marks yet the lower ranked riders could get through them.

The end results of the day, was an high scoring trial, yet the lower ranked rider margin was less than it is in an event like France last year.

Is it the size of the obstacle that defines how good a trials rider you are? judging by the daily scores of top US riders who have ridden the SSDT I would say not, they are all riding the same line up nadgery rock sections as the club

riders, but loosing more points a day on 30 sections than they do in 36 sections in some national championship rounds.

I know that the kids think it's cool to do the big stuff like the top riders, but if they are serious about competing with the European riders, there is a whole lot of work needed on the technical side of riding first.

Then again, my topic is about the section difficulty at the US nationals, and my point that it can be made harder without making it any more dangerous.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

I never thought I would say this, but Lane is spot on when he talks about training, and working on your weak points, but what comes first is knowing what those weak points are, the young Amercan youth is jumping up big logs rock faces and all other large obsticals, if they can do that what is the point of practicing the little stuff, that depends on how far they wish to go in the game.

[nsaqam]

I enjoyed the more technical sections down in the stream at Duluth more than say section 3 with the 16 ft splatter wall. One of those stream sections, I think it was section 5 that went under the bridge was interesting to watch all day. Nearly everyone made it through but only Kuroyama cleaned it. It was amazing and nothing big about it.

This is an excellent post ishy and I look forward to reading what you veterans think.

[brian r]

I rode a vintage "Scottish Style" event at Bob Ginders a month or so ago.

I rode the 2 line and it was perfect for me. We had 18 or 20 sections and we rode them I think 3 times. What I loved about it was at the end of the day there wasn't a section that I hadn't cleaned but I still had a fair amount of points. Very challenging yet cleanable if I did everything right.

BTW, imagine a 250 plus pound rider on a TL 125 riding these too!

Poor little bike.

Most fun I've had in a long time (besides that, you pig).

[sirhc]

As for the nationals the only one I have ridden was Donner in 04 and from what I heard from other peaple it was a pretty tough national.I thought it was great and there was nothing that was scary.

As for local events I do think you do need to not make it to tuff for the lower glasses.My kid won the last event in the novice class with 60 something points the next was in the 100's and so on and then a few DNF's.I wonder how many of the peaple will come back. You can kill us all in the upper classes just take it easy on the lower ones, and that means the loop too, so we don't drive any of those new peaple away

[brian r]

Chris, what kind of fruit is a peaple? Cross between a Peach and an Apple?

[the artist formerly known as ish]

This is one area that people don't have to debate rules or in this case go to the NATC and put forward a proposal, each trial, providing danger isn't a factor will be left just how the club setting the event desire them to be.

The Vermont and other rounds in past years, have riders loosing a lot more points, yet the events were very highly rated.

I do know that if you drive a couple of thousand miles and you knock a marker over, get a bad call, or even just stall or five a section, that your event is over as it will be won on one or even zero marks, isn't much fun.

Also from the other point of veiw, if most riders who are competeing for the whole series think it's great as is, chances are that is the way it will stay.

I just want to bring attention to the fact the scores are getting very low, do the section need to be more difficult at the entry level of the US national series, and should the requirement as stated at the top of the NATC entry form, now read riders of intermediate or higher caliber.

[alan bechard]

Well, Ish, as I was grabbing it, you cited it.

http://www.natctrials.org/documents/2006%2...pl.%20Rules.pdf

Rule 1A

That really covers it, but in the soap opera of things that have been said before, and as we argue along parrallel lines that will never intersect, now if they would just clarify what an advanced or expert is, the rule would have teeth.

As I go back on the soapbox again, that is why we need standardized classes and at least agree to call the darn things by the same names.

Then we need to enforce rule 1B.... Boy won't that be fun for an unpaid volunteer to have to do.

Going along, section difficulty is something I struggle with greatly as Trial master. Seldom due to weather, riders or something do I feel like I hit it spot on. I will also add though something that I was told a while back, and have seen to be true more often then not. The MAJORITY of competing riders will be happier if the trials is too easy rather then too hard, and will be far more likely to return to your event the next year.

I can also assure you, and I would expect your experiences have been similar, that when I set an event too hard, man they wore me out telling me about it, but when I missed and set it too easy, I would hear the odd, yeah, it was a bit easy, but I had a great time.

[sirhc]

You got me Brian, I am dislecsic "I know that is not right"I had special classes all though school.. You can see how well they worked.My seven year old spells better than me

[brian r]

Dang man. You really know how to make a guy feel bad!

I was at an RV place Sunday and a guy was cleaning his

RV, I said "don't let your wife see you do that, she'll

want you to clean up all the time" he says, "I have to sell

this RV because we are getting a divorce!"

Open mouth, insert foot!

Back on topic, easier for Novices, harder for everyone else.

Look me up at the Youth Nationals or the WR, I'll be the guy

setting up trophies with a Hebo boot in my mouth!