the artist formerly known as ish Posted April 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 you can't change the names of the classes Alan, the names Pro, expert, master can imply something other than the truth, and sound cool, so they will stay. You do however have four lines of difficulty in the nationals, A,B,C,D. The first three take care of themselves just by the fact they are of an higher difficulty than D, D is of the same difficulty for all the riders who compete in it, however some clean the line and some loose over 100 points on that same line. Pull up the support classes combined, and for the past three years you can, by ability only, nothing else!! divide that whole group of 14 classes into three classes based on ability and not gender, top 33% middle 33% and the bottom 33% you would then have three classes of riders D,E,F Each of thirty riders plus who could compete against riders of similar ability. Make sense!! not really, because only 18 people would take a podium pot home, rather than 51 that can now But going on the NATC rule that a rider must be at least of Advanced caliber of ability to compete, that would mean anyone in the support class must be of advance caliber. Until you can grade the system on ability and not gender will you get any sort of standard to work off. What a waste of ink Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 (edited) Brian, Don't feel bad you had me laughing with the fruit thing My property is full of fruit trees maybe I should genetically engineer some peaple trees.Boy I need to learn how to use the spell check. I'll see you at the Y.N. in July Edited April 16, 2006 by sirhc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 (edited) I know this started for the nationals but, I agree with Alan we need the same classes all across the country.I think here in Ca. we may be getting North and South to agree by both changing one of there classes or maybe if we can't agree on names just do like vintage and do numbers. I heard once from some where that the winner should have like 30 points at the end of the day.I ask you guys that have been around longer, is this what to shoot for when setting up a trial? Edited April 16, 2006 by sirhc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan bechard Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 I think you will find a lot of answers to that one Chris. There are just so many variables, so many different riders, and as I said, at least here we can go from Too easy too unrideable with a 30 minute rain shower, been there done that. If I had to give firm guidance, I would like to think that the winning rider in a class had over 10 points, and the tail of the class was still in double digits. Sometimes that get's blown out of the water though by who shows and what class they sandbag,,, uh,,, I mean ride in. Dean dropped 9 points last event in Intermediate, Came in 5th. I think that is what Ish is getting at on a smaller scale. One time Christina (my daughter, did you meet her?) came in last at an event riding Intermediate with like 130 points and some damn terrible scary crashes,,, and my daughter can crash with the best of them. Dropped the bike 15 to 20 vertical in one crash. Convinced her to ride novice A the next day and won the class with like 3 points. Something missed there. I guess I am wandering, but trying to say that I would not measure my success of an event I held based upon how many points folks dropped. I usually hope I did not loose money, that folks say nice things about it afterward, and that folks say they will be back next year. And these things happen more for me on an easier then a harder trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I seem to remember growing up in New England , competing in my first trials event in 70 or 71 . That the neta at the time had a enduro/dirtbike class , then novice , amateur, then expert. And if I remember correctly if you won a certain # of events in your class you were moved up to the next class... no sandbagging Just foggy memories... Glenn And it was always technical in those days!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dman Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Ishy, that's exactly the reason why I went/didn't move to the class I'm in now, HS since it got to do the ES line this year, because I was bored last year of losing because of one dab or a stupid five or something. It just wasn't challenging anymore. I'm glad I'm in the ES line now, more challenge, and less of the one point dropped equalling a second place. I think a lot of support riders would agree with you, however many are too uh, well not physically able enough to take any crashes should they ride the ES line so they won't move up. And I don't see the Expert line getting any easier so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 (edited) Ishy, I also hate to admit that I agree with you! What is this board coming too? Could this be the end times? How about this John, we reframe the subject. We "both" simply agree with Lampkin and his veiw of what he saw teaching here in the USA and not each other. That way we don't look like we are agreeing on this topic only agreeing with Lampkin. Whatduyousay? One thing I noticed at the Lampkin school was how unteachable the young American upper class riders were during the training camp! Lampkin tried to cover the fundamentals with them and they acted like they were insulted he was even covering those techniques. Did they have an understanding of them? No, not a good one anyway! Your onto something here Ishy, several factors seem to be coming into play here. One, the sections have become less technical and more hop, then splatter. These types of sections tend to be, clean or five. I noticed the similarity of almost all the sections at the SoCal Pro sections when I rode there. The hardest section of the trial was the last one which took the most points. It was a more traditional big climb and drop, then climb, drop and turn section! It was the one section I attempted because it was not dangerous but took the most points off the field. While the other sections had mostly big gaps and splaters, sections that I knew were over my head, yet they took few points off the best riders. Yet the last section that was more techical, took the most points was the one section that I had the courage or sense to attempt. Taking points off the best riders in the world or nation, yet keeping them safe for lesser riders is not hard. Look at the Scottish, everyone of the 240 entries ride the same sections. Yet they manage to take points off everyone, from local clubmen to the best riders in the world. How do they do that? By using technical sections! Your right on this subject Ishy. Edited April 13, 2006 by Mich Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Ishy, I don't believe that I ever mentioned that I really enjoyed the time we spent together setting up the line 4 youth sections at the Donner West Coast Youth nationals. Let's do it again someday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essex rider Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 I feel that there is too bigger gap between classes. For example the intermediate class have no hopping or skipping just tight turns, big climbs etc yet the expert route there is hopping about and big steps and drops. I feel that the intermediate riders arent prepared for the expert route. There is however a class where half inter and half expert are ridden but this is only recently i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Bit too early for me to start dateing Lane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich lin Posted April 13, 2006 Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Hey, don't go there with me! Brokeback-Ringo maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted April 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2006 Just to get back on topic. Firstly, this is by no way a knock against any events, just an observation, of what I have seen happening over the past few years, any nationals that I have attended in this time have all been great fun events, and some I didn't attend would of probably prooved my observations wrong. Using myself as a gauge in National trials events I have noticed the scores dropping, to the point if you have a single dab you are likely to be beat. I know it isn't my riding that has improved, but rather the sections are just getting easier. The last four rounds of the US series, some support riders have ridden three events for the sum total of three points. I know many of the same riders used to ride the same classes and returned with scores in the teens per lap. Are we getting too easy ? WELL!! are we ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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