Requesting A 'five' From The Observer.

[scorpa3]

There is some discussion at the moment concerning the practice of allowing riders to ask for a 'five' rather than attempt a section.

Some organisers think that failing to make a genuine attempt at a section should be punished with more than five marks.

I personally think that providing a rider asks for a five in person, then this is fine.

What do others think? Should we be 'encouraged' to ride every section?

[andy_290]

I think it's fine, especially when for example, moving from novice into clubman class, you're still not 100% with many of the sections and you may not be confident enough to attempt them all without thinking you're going to smash something off your bike/yourself.

Andy

P.S. Just thought, you could always ride in the first gate and straight back out again to get the five if they made it part of the rules that you "had to" attempt the section.

Edited April 13, 2006 by Andy_290

[scorpa3]

Yep, riding through the start might do it, but what if the observer deems it not to have been a genuine attempt?

I think the rule is fine as it is. As long as you ask for a five then you should be under no pressure to attempt the section.

If we pressure riders to do something they are reluctant to do and then they hurt themselves, does that not open up the possibility for compensation?

[scrappington]

someone will correct me if i am wrong or out of date but depending on the observer you can be given a TEN not a five if you fail to attempt a section ! I have never seen this happen tho

[scorpa3]

No- The 10 rule was dropped a few years back. It was thought that penalising riders for not trying a section that they didn't feel they could do, might lead to injury claims. A good decision in my view.

But now there is discussion about re-introducing an extra penalty for not making a genuine attempt.

I was wondering what other riders think?

[stuessenhigh]

You can still get 10 points according to my ACU book....BUT...it is for

Not attempting a section when called upon to do so by an official...or

Missing a section or failing to have a punch card marked.

the acu book does clearly state that a 5 will be awarded if...

When requested by a rider rather than attempt a section.

SO there we have it..and it makes sense if you ask me...If Joe Bloggs doesnt wanna do a section then he's within his rights to ask for a 5...or at least thats the way I understand it

Not that I've ever done it though..I'm far too mad..or is it stupid????...hee-hee..

[araf]

Being fairly new to the sport and very inept, then a 'Gentlemans 5' is something that I consider when tackling a section. I'm there to enjoy myself, not wreck me and my bike. I have to go to work on a Monday.

Last week-end I was at the Tenterden event (which, if any of the organisers are reading, was brilliant), and would have probably completed if a '5' would have been obtainable in the last section of each lap, but as the only way out was through a very slippery obstacle, I finished after only two laps.

It doesn't matter to me if it's a 5 or a 10, as it won't make much different to my score, but there SHOULD always be an opt out at club level. When you're talking national championships, then maybe there's scope for change, but I think a unified scoring system is better, so I vote for it to stay.

Edited April 14, 2006 by ARAF

[telecat]

Much as some riders have tempted me I have not given a "10" out yet. Just remember we observers do volunter and we do not appreciate the aggro a minority of riders seem to think is nescessary.

[dman]

Two things:

1.) if you're in a line, and time is of the essence, then it makes sense to have the request a five thing

2.) if you had to go into the section, and you just went in the start gates and killed the engine or something, it'd just waste your time, the observer's time, the guys in line's time, and would make no sense.

edit: I'm for the request a five thing...

Edited April 15, 2006 by Dman

[ikb]

So theres a que of 20 riders, every other riders fiving, its raining and cold, most observers would happily let you have a 5. Then they can go and get warm sooner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[old trials fanatic]

I think we need to remember that we are talking about a "Sport" here not Gladiatorial Combat.

Of course a rider should have the option of taking a penalty if he feels the potential for injury is unaceptable. TRIALS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FUN FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!! It's ok if Daddy is paying for the new parts on the bike or that you are not old enough, or wise enough, yet to recognise your limitations but this should always be at the riders discretion.

Perhaps the point is should organisers be laying out sections that are obviously "deangerous" ? I dont mean impassable due to weather, slippy mud etc. I mean BIG drops and Massive rock steps you all know the sort of thing.

That sort of thing nearly killed off trials completely not so long age and it's hartening to see that some organisers have seen the light at last.

Some sense of progression is needed again. Closed to Club trials should not present obsticles as hard as Restricted or Open to Centre trials which should not present obsticles as difficult as Nationals. Surely that makes sense? Riders would then enter the events that best suited their ability. Hopefully the situation would then not arrise where the rider felt he needed to request a five?

However as stated before the option must always be there for the rider to choose. I wouldnt want the responsability for a rider ending up injured or worse paralysed because i had "forced" him to attempt an obsticle which could be deemed as dangerous.

I think the organisers should have a long hard think about the trials they set out and not set them out because "so and so will be here and we have to take marks off him" SOD HIM if he doesnt like it then HE can go elsewhere. I would be more concerned that the majority of the entry had a good fun day out on their bikes. If that means somebody wins on 0 or 1 mark so what? Just look at the rest of the scores and the faces at the end of the trial to see if you got it right.

Just my humble opinion and i appologise for the length of my post but i do feel very strongly about this

Edited April 15, 2006 by Old trials fanatic

[scorpa3]

Well written 'Trials Fanatic' I think you've summed up my feeling on the matter very well.

Taking your line of thought one step further: Whilst I agree organisers should set out trials that are not dangerous, we do all make mistakes.

I can remember setting out a section at Sambourne Farm a few years back which on hind sight was dangerous.

It was only one section out of sixteen sections, the others were all spot on; I just misjudged the severity of that one.

Oddly, the winner of the trial was the only rider to get through on all three laps and he thought it was a good section. His brother fell and broke the bars on his Montesa, I don't think he would have agreed.

A number of riders asked for fives after the first lap, with 16 sections it didn't ruin the trial, however it would have been wrong to have forced everyone to ride the section by fear of a 10, that would have ruined the trial and possibly injured someone. It was my mistake... the section was too hard. It happens.

Asking for a 'five' is perfectly acceptable in my book.

[rabie]

as above for saftey reason it would be unreasonable not to allow this opt out

in MX the riders sign on saying they've walked the track and are competent to ride it

not having that option might have certain ramifcations (but by all means wack it up to 10 if you want to - but you'ld have to change TSR-22A and B )

[atomant]

Asking for a 'five' is perfectly acceptable in my book.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me Too

[oceanvibe]

Fair enough for club and center trials but if it is a national you should be up for it. I think you should ba allowed to ask as you may have had an off earlier and you or the bike might not be up to some of the more challenging sections later in the trial.

If forced to just get through the start gate, stand on the bake brake and pop the clutch, instant 5 for stalling the bike !!!