Revisiting The 125cc National Championship

[mich lin]

Now that our American fans have had a chance to see just how well the Europeans go on the 125cc machines. Maybe now there will be a renewed debate on the importance of keeping our kids on 125's and the need for a 125cc national title.

That is if we ever hope to have an impact on the World Championship again.

[northernnorm]

We just got home after a tough but fun TTC/WTC and have to say Alexz rode and finished so much better than the rest of the 125s if that gap is sustained it would seem that his progress would be hindered if forced to stay in that forced bracket (age/cc) for very long . Yes the difference from the 125 scores and the NATC Experts was a huge shocker ,in USA defense Cody was right in the 4th slot on JR line so we have not been completely in the dust as many Brits want to believe. Wonderful experience we had even w/such slick conditions it was great meeting up with the Danby and Wiggy teams as much as was possible . Hate the fact its a year before it can happen again.

[nigel dabster]

By the rules Alexz only has another year on the 125 (2007) so I don't think he will be held back by the rules, he can't ride WTC till 2008 anyway.

[mich lin]

Well said Dabster! Now lets see who has the best career?

Will it be Wigg on the 125cc bike or Smage who is on the full size bike already mixing it up with Webb and Aaron? How about Webb?

Any bets?

[kinell]

Alexz  rode  and finished so much better  than the rest  of the 125s  if that gap is sustained it would seem that his progress  would be hindered if forced to stay in that forced bracket (age/cc)  for very long .

Cody was right in the  4th slot on JR line so  we have not been completely in the dust as many Brits want to believe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alexz trains, practices and rides a 125 all of the time. His results against others who spend the majority of their bike time on a 250 proves the majority Brit point of view perfectly. Just think how good his trials technique will be by the time he is allowed to move up to a 250 It's not all about hitting big steps with a clear run up...

I haven't got the results to hand but one of the TC crowd commented on how many 3's one of the US riders dropped compared to the others. Also, how many were in that class altogether?

DISCLAIMER

I'm not intending to start off another UK -v- USA flame fest, although I would like to hear if Al Bechard still believes in American youths riding 250's is the best way forwards?

[nigel dabster]

If alexz and ross and lee spend alot of time on the 125cc machines more power from a 280 will allow a gentle progression to the bigger sections? Surely?

10 ft step on 125 15 ft step on 280 isn't that logic?

Edited May 22, 2006 by Nigel Dabster

[kinell]

You arguing with me?

Maybe I worded it wrong

[alan bechard]

Good greif,,,,

I guess I need to give reading lessons to you folks.

Did you sneak some apple juice over there Kinnel and were tipping a bit as you typed.

I SAID ONE TIME, IN THE MIDDLE OF ANOTHER DISCUSSION, TO SHOW ANOTHER SIDE OR POINT, THAT THERE IS MERIT IN THE PRACTICING ON WHAT YOU WANT TO BE GOOD AT, AND IF YOU WANT TO BE GOOD AT RIDING 250'S THEN THAT IS WHAT YOU SHOULD RIDE. No different from what you just said about riding 125's all the time..

If you go back and actually READ what I have written, TIME and AGAIN, I actually believe the 125's help develop the riders abilities. What I am adamantly against, is FORCING, or Mandating that we have CC or displacemtent classes in the National series. I believe that this will be an exclusionary action and will not be beneficial to Trials in the US.

All you guys keep acting like because those guys did great on the 125's, that the corrolary is that all riders must ride the 125's to be great. Or that, if you are on a 125 you will be great and be competitive.

Obviously we look at this differently, I think that those guys could have been on Mopeds and impressed the crud out of me. Because I saw him ride a moped better then I could ever hope to ride does not mean to me that we all need to run out and get Moped's for our kids because look how good those guys are riding those Mopeds.

The current NATC system allows a parent and a youngster to run whatever they think is the most appropriate. They have the freedom to decide not the NATC, nor AMA nor I, nor Lane, nor anyone else. And that I agree with wholeheartedly.

So go use the Search function, then copy paste where I said that a 250 was the best way forward.

[nigel dabster]

You arguing with me? 

Maybe I worded it wrong

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why you want to make something of it?????

No I am agreeing with you, 125 then 250, way to go.

[nigel dabster]

Good greif,,,,

I guess I need to give reading lessons to you folks.

Did you sneak some apple juice over there Kinnel and were tipping a bit as you typed.

I SAID ONE TIME, IN THE MIDDLE OF ANOTHER DISCUSSION, TO SHOW ANOTHER SIDE OR POINT, THAT THERE IS MERIT IN THE PRACTICING ON WHAT YOU WANT TO BE GOOD AT, AND IF YOU WANT TO BE GOOD AT RIDING 250'S THEN THAT IS WHAT YOU SHOULD RIDE.  No different from what you just said about riding 125's all the time..

If you go back and actually READ what I have written, TIME and AGAIN, I actually believe the 125's help develop the riders abilities.  What I am adamantly against, is FORCING, or Mandating that we have CC or displacemtent classes in the National series.  I believe that this will be an exclusionary action and will not be beneficial to Trials in the US.

All you guys keep acting like because those guys did great on the 125's, that the corrolary is that all riders must ride the 125's to be great.  Or that, if you are on a 125 you will be great and be competitive.

Obviously we look at this differently, I think that those guys could have been on Mopeds and impressed the crud out of me.  Because I saw him ride a moped better then I could ever hope to ride does not mean to me that we all need to run out and get Moped's for our kids because look how good those guys are riding those Mopeds.

The current NATC system allows a parent and a youngster to run whatever they think is the most appropriate.  They have the freedom to decide not the NATC, nor AMA nor I, nor Lane, nor anyone else.  And that I agree with wholeheartedly.

So go use the Search function, then copy paste where I said that a 250 was the best way forward.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see where you are coming from Alan but feel from being close to the 125 lads that they have benefitted from progressing step by step surely thats the only way? If Alexz had been on a full bore 300 raga rep at 14 say would he have learnt the complete set of skills to get a bike up a section that it will only just do? or would he have learnt give it a handful and up it goes easy.

back to the rules it is ok saying they can choose a 125 but they don't and where are they?

[kinell]

All you guys keep acting like because those guys did great on the 125's, that the corrolary is that all riders must ride the 125's to be great.  Or that, if you are on a 125 you will be great and be competitive.

The current NATC system allows a parent and a youngster to run whatever they think is the most appropriate.  They have the freedom to decide not the NATC, nor AMA nor I, nor Lane, nor anyone else.  And that I agree with wholeheartedly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, and I thought I'd had a bad day!

Firstly, I know your views about youths on 125's and 250's and believe it or not, I meant to type "nsaqam" and not "Al Bechard". I'll have to put that one down to brain fade as I remember you two having heated debates recently. Sorry for mixing you both up because of it

So...

Ding ding, Round 2

I have never said that the youths MUST ride a 125 and they will then be the greatest. My views of the 125 ruling are pretty simple.

1) The rule is in place so it's pointless bitching about it.

2) The youths that want to be World champion some day must ride a 125 if they want to ride the series and develop their skills.

3) The experience gained riding the series against the worlds best at a young age will be invaluable. Plus watching the likes of Lampkin, Raga, Bou etc.

4) Technique is bound to improve if the rider does not have the 250 power under his right hand.

5) When they do move up to the 250's, they will already have the technique and will be able to use it to its full potential.

Maybe Mich Lin was right all along

[dman]

This is getting offly repetitive.

[alan bechard]

back to the rules it is ok saying they can choose a 125 but they don't and where are they?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not quite sure what you are asking here Dabster. Are you asking where are the NATC rules that say 125's are allowed to be ridden? Or are you asking why more folks do not ride 125's as it is the way to progress?

[mich lin]

I agree with Dabster and Alan, amazingly! Riding a 125 is only important because that's what the rest of the world rides, if you ride with the best, you get better is my position.

It's also hard to discount Dabsters progression of power argument. I believe that Smage and Webb have sold themselves out by moving up to bigger bikes too soon.

To clarify, I've also never, ever been for "forcing" young riders on a 125cc machine only. Let them do what they please.

I've only proposed a vehicle in US competition to entice youngsters to remain on the bikes the rest of the world is on. That vehicle is a 125cc national title. As it is now in the USA, a rider is at a huge disadvantage if they remain on the 125cc bike. Because the rest of his US peers are on big bikes that are easier to ride, especally at high altitude events.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

Two bigger factors than the machine capacity here in the US, the time the riders spend togeather practicing/competeing, and the type of section that they layout over here.

Maybe they are quite happy doing what they are doing, and who are we! to say it's right or wrong.

I have noticed on quite a few other posts, how quick some are to point out how far behind they think the US riders are, nice job on supporting the few who are out there giving a try while your sat on your big fat arses doing nowt.