dabber Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 He seems to be close, but just not close enough.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 at the moment he is riding bike that is at best 'in development' i imagine that another couple of years will have to pass before the mont has an evens chance against a well ridden 2 stroke and if thats a gas gas with a worthy world champ on board that may be even fiurther off trials is not motogp where the best rider in the world steps off the best bike in the world gets on the a completely different manufacturers bike and wins virtually every race although doug is one of the top 3 trials riders of all time he aint no rossi more a mick doohan and i'd settle for been mick but the difference is doug wants to be the rossi and hes going to throw that mont at rocks untill he does win again hes certainly still got talent and ability.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 ....Hawkstone's not too far away, is it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabber Posted June 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Only 3 wins last year and mainly third or worse this year with an odd runner up position. Lets see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 I feel sure that Dougie will win more rounds, but I personally doubt that he will ever be world champ again riding the Mont. Unless WTC goes fully 4t that is! I wonder if (and that's IF) he had been offered the same deal and gone over to Gas Gas, what would have happened then? Is it too late in his career to swap, even if he wanted to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatgearyouusing Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Remember back in the eighties when Mick Andrews was allegedly past his best then he went on to win a world round. Dougie's got some world round wins left in him yet but he wont be world champ again until he's back on a two-stroke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 at the moment he is riding bike that is at best 'in development' i imagine that another couple of years will have to pass before the mont has an evens chance against a well ridden 2 stroke and if thats a gas gas with a worthy world champ on board that may be even fiurther offtrials is not motogp where the best rider in the world steps off the best bike in the world gets on the a completely different manufacturers bike and wins virtually every race although doug is one of the top 3 trials riders of all time he aint no rossi more a mick doohan and i'd settle for been mick but the difference is doug wants to be the rossi and hes going to throw that mont at rocks untill he does win again hes certainly still got talent and ability.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't understand how you can say the 4RT is at best in development. No-one other than a WTC rider can say whether a bike is good enough for what they require and none of us on this forum or of that standard so how can we draw that conclusion. If said it himself then fair enough. It won WTC rounds last year with both Doug and Fuji, and Fuji has won one this year. If Raga was running away with the series winning every round by a significant margin I'd agree with you but he isn't. Five different winners so far this year? Seems to be rider errors (generally) by all of them that is costing them wins rather than one of them being consistently ahead. It only needs Doug to win one and Raga to have an off day and it could be all square again. Raga is nowhere near as far ahead of the others as Doug used to be - he regularly slaughtered them indoors and out. Can't see Raga dominating like that. And the other point about the 4RT is that Doug lost his championship to Fuji on the 315 so a 4 stroke wasn't at fault there, so no guarantee he would be doing any better now on the 315 or other marque. Comparison to Rossi? His record, talent and commitment are every bit a match for Rossi. Doug was winning on Beta, switched to Montesa and carried on winning. But he doesn't sulk and hide away from cameras when he's put in a duff performance. Rossi is a brilliant rider but still needs equal or better machinery to win, just like Schumacher. The Yamaha is a good bike and Yamaha performed miracles giving him a competitive bike to start his campaign with them. He wasn't riding the same duff bike that they used the season before, it was completely reworked before he rode it. We've seen he can't make a duff bike work this year with some of his results, just like Schumacher last year. Now it's working again he's back at the front. I really hope he can do it but it is going to be a tough job and there are still others firmly in the equation too as they will all take points of each other if the topsy-turvy results continue. I guess in about 10 years time, when his Honda Montesa days are firmly behind him, is when we may learn the truth about what he feels now as to whether the 4RT is up to it or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 No one has mentioned the scenario of Raga on a 4RT. He only signed a one year deal with Gas Gas. Raga would be remembered a lot longer if he switched to 4 stroke and then won the WTC against the established 4 stroke riders. That would say a lot more about his ability than riding the proven bike he is used to against riders on relativley new machines. Regardless of the fact Raga is leading the WTC in my opinion he is struggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwtajimbo Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 The 4rt is an inferior bike when it comes to world class obstacles. Both fuji and Dougie have said that. The four stroke doesn't have the snap. It doesn't take a world class rider to watch a video of Raga and Dougie set up identically for the same obstacle and Raga lands on top holding pressure on the back wheel, and Dougie has to muscle the 4rt to get the skid plate on top. The 4rt gets great traction, just not snappy power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Could you confirm where Doug and Fujigas made these statements? I have personally watched the 4RT get up the biggest rock steps a WTC can throw at them. The 4RT has different power characteristics to the 2 strokes but it is not inferior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 The 4rt is an inferior bike when it comes to world class obstacles. Both fuji and Dougie have said that. The four stroke doesn't have the snap. It doesn't take a world class rider to watch a video of Raga and Dougie set up identically for the same obstacle and Raga lands on top holding pressure on the back wheel, and Dougie has to muscle the 4rt to get the skid plate on top. The 4rt gets great traction, just not snappy power. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Rubbish - the Mont gets up anything the other bikes do in WTC Outdoors and stuff that others couldn't at Hawkstone last year according to those that were there. Indoor sections I agree with you but we're not talking about that circus act. Besides that I can't see it has anything to do with snappy power. They hold the things on full revs and fire them off the clutch. When it's on full revs, the way the power is delivered off tickover doesn't really count for much. The 2-strokes rev higher. Doug is also a fair bit heavier than Raga which makes a much bigger difference than the fact that the GasGas is a few pounds lighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Could you confirm where Doug and Fujigas made these statements? I have personally watched the 4RT get up the biggest rock steps a WTC can throw at them. The 4RT has different power characteristics to the 2 strokes but it is not inferior. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah like section 5 in Spain, the 4rt of Fuji got up ok first lap Doug Fived then cleaned second lap. A few of the Gassers didn't make it either. Tha 4rt, It is very different is as pwerful as it needs to be and trust me it is snappy. There are too many factors here to say this bike does this and this doesn't, it is as much down to the riders in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 my whole argument is ..that on the same bikes raga and doug would be very evenly matched the only thing that differentiates is the machinery.. raga uses a machine that has remained substanialy unchanged for many years the mont is 3 years old at best and obviously still has some way to go down the development road that honda have managed to drag it to levels where 2 of the best 5 riders in the world can have it winning world rounds is a fantastic achievement and is one only honda or yamaha could have done and yamaha although moving forward are still some way off been as competative as the mont if the guys can fight off the aging process i'm conviced that honda will make the mont clearerly the outstanding trials bike of its time and we will all look back and say ''i remember when 2 strokes were good but i'd never ride one now'' as for doug winning world rounds... definately the world championship though will need him to capture the dominant form and motorcycle which he had when he could go virtually the full year without losing a round and i dont see that at the moment.. for a lad that used to deliver my papers though, good luck to him.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 There isn't a dominant rider in WTC trials anymore. As you so rightly said Lampkin used to dominant the WTC almost winning every round, this was the same indoors. His record number of indoor winsin a season, remains unbeaten even by Raga. I honestly beleive and hope, that Doug has another crown left in him. His riding this year as proven he is still a contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austini Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 How much, if at all has the 4rt held Dougie back, how many factors should we take into effect. Do all the spanish/portugal/andorra rounds set their sections to suit the 2st's????. Is dougie passed his prime? or have Raga's inc: just stepped up a level ?. Was dougie lucky he only drasticly change mounts near the end of his career as opposed to poor old Bernie who had to switch to a Massy Fergason the year after his world title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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