perce Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 After 5 months or so & more miles than most 4rt's will do in 2 years my bike wouldn't start tonight. With a long days course sorting for our 3 day ahead tomorrow I was less than happy. After much kicking & cursing I decided to change the plug, it had been in since Easter & with an SSDT under it's belt I thought a new one would do the trick. More kicking & cursing the sodding thing still wouldn't start. I decided to walk away at this point, after 10 minutes I went back into the garage to get my manual for a read up on it & thought B*****ks to it I'll have another go, it fired up 3rd kick. Why the hell wouldn't it start the first time? Both plugs were totally dry when I removed them to have a look. (The old plug doesn't look much worse than new anyway) I know that kick kick kick like you would a 2 stroke wasn't working so that's why I walked away. I know that relax & push slowly is the only way these things start. The only thing I know that is different to normal is that the bike was laid on it's side on the floor for a couple of hours mid week, surely this can't be a factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Do They Have A low / no oil presure sensor ? If they do that may very well be what the problem was ! Or maybe it just wanted you to rub it's tank the right way .... Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted June 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 It sounds like it flooded, if that happens they say just a whiff of throttle, over compression and then a long swinging kick!According to the manual, there is also a fuel "cut off" when the bike is leaned over. Other than that I can't say why you experienced this problem. Big John the new plug was dry & didn't even smell of gas when I removed it for inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barcota Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 The only thing I know that is different to normal is that the bike was laid on it's side on the floor for a couple of hours mid week, surely this can't be a factor? Since you have had this bike for a good length of time and have many many hours on it it could be that some corrosion somewhere in the fuel cut off system is causing the problem. The manual should be able to help you to troubleshoot this feature. I understand the safety intentions of this cut off but it is only something else that can go wrong. So far I have not heard of anyone else that has had this problem probably because they don't have as many hours on their bike. I hope you will inform all of us 4RT owners what conclusions you come to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 If it happens again I'd try trials central classified ads rather than the forums..... out of interest can you bump start one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Daft bugger put some gas in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dixie Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 PERCE the monty has a angle sensor to shut the motor off if you drop it maybe if the bike was laid over for a long time this may have stuck (if it is mechanical) i do not know the spech of the switch but it is worth considering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted June 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 the monty has a angle sensor to shut the motor off if you drop it I know about the switch, it's a pain in the a*** for stopping your bike when you lay it on the floor when you have a gate to shut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masso Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 I've had this happen twice!...both times it was a new plug that got it going! oh, and just a hint of throttle. but what you've done is the sin of all sins.....don't lay on side for too long!! the sensor, dude ...the sensor!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the alcoholic Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hello Perce, Thank Goodness, someone else who has had the starting problem. Both mine (2x05's) have done this before also, I thought I was going to have a heart attack kicking the bloody thing (cue lots of expletives and calling into question the parentage of anyone involved in the design team), although when I say kicking I really mean pushing in a "controlled and steady manner", with a lot of muttering thrown in to encourage it! YEAH RIGHT, as the blood pressure rises so does the kicking action in my experience!!! I too tried replacing/cleaning the plug (numerous times I might add, and replacement was a spanking NipponDenso), alas, all to no avail. Eventually, sweating and somewhat discouraged I retired from the battle field to regroup/get a breather/call it names and, Guess what, on return (approx 20min) it started 2nd kick ("controlled and steady manner" don't forget). I have to say any time I have tried to kick mine with the throttle open (always by accident I might add) it has a tendency (read every friggin time) to kick back, not good for the knees. Is this just my bikes or has anyone suffered the same result?? The Bank Angle Sensor (cut off) is there to detect when the bike has leant over by 65deg or more allowing the ECU to make the decision to cut the injection AND ignition AFTER 7 seconds. Did you try grounding the plug and checking for sparks?? Moreover this facility is there to prevent engine damage caused by oil egress/ingress, I am guessing you would not be doing any good leaving the bike on its side and allowing the ECU to decide to turn it off. I sincerely would love to believe the extended time you left the bike on its side was to blame, BUT, I didn't leave mine on its side before its decision not to play ball (as I suspect neither have the others who have suffered the same fate). So your guess is as good as mine, just remember when you are stuck in a bog hole in the a*** hole of no-where and all around you people are muttering "told you Sid/bert/Andy/etc. those 4RT's are too bloody complicated, never work,, never work,, you mark my words" and the frickin thing wont start "YOU ARE NOT ALONE" and a lot of bloody use that will do!! To answer Baldilocks query - No you cannot bump start a 4RT to my knowledge (although I may of course be proved wrong- FF where are you???) because during kickstarting ("controlled and steady manner" remember) all of the generated power is selectively supplied to "vital components" and only when the motor has successfully started will general distribution resume. Something my present bike done recently (and I know of one other that has done it too) was after sitting (we talk endless bouts of *****) for approx 20 mins when started it would idle but ran really rough when revved, almost like it was off a cylinder, a complete B*****ks on a single cylinder motor you will agree. It only done this for about 30sec or so but done it twice that day never to repeat it again (yet). Has anyone had similar or any ideas?? Fouled plug or dirty fuel?? same fuel used on previous fill and twice subsquently! and the plug hasn't been changed either!! As always mate like Barcota said I/we would really appreciate your findings, we are all learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted July 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 Well I think there's something in the system that kills both gas & spark because when I removed the new plug I put in it neither had a hint of gas (both smell or taste) & when checking for spark with the plug grounded there was no spark. Hasn't done it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Just out of interest, you say the ECU is switched off by the sensor at an angle of 65 Degrees. Well if this is the case, then does uprighting the bike reset the ECU? I ask this question as I would assume the ECU would cut out the injectors from firing as well hence no petrol. So the symptons you describe would indicate it hasn't been reset for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuhrc Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 Something my present bike done recently (and I know of one other that has done it too) was after sitting (we talk endless bouts of *****) for approx 20 mins when started it would idle but ran really rough when revved, almost like it was off a cylinder, a complete B*****ks on a single cylinder motor you will agree. It only done this for about 30sec or so but done it twice that day never to repeat it again (yet). Has anyone had similar or any ideas?? Fouled plug or dirty fuel?? same fuel used on previous fill and twice subsquently! and the plug hasn't been changed either!! Yup I've had this, was sitting in a big queue on a cold day, fired it up and started blipping the throttle straight away. Immediately ran like a bag of spanners. Stopped it and then started again and then allowed it to idle for the manual's recommended 2 minutes!! ECU needed to reset itself as the engine had just got cold. I would guess the talking sh*te was actually more than 20 minutes and a cold engine resulted!!! Also i've bump started before, no problem, though engine was hot at the time, never tried it from cold........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perce Posted July 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I never tried bumping mine off, perhaps it's because it never stalls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuhrc Posted July 13, 2006 Report Share Posted July 13, 2006 I never tried bumping mine off, perhaps it's because it never stalls? Ah, had to do some last minute gardening half way up a hillclimb section, so on the way back down tried bumping........no problem!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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