New Sacu Rule

[fatbikedude]

the main issue is being lost here - its the imposition of a 10 mark penalty for not complying with a "rule" why only not displaying numbers - surely its more important to comply with other rules involving safety or conduct, I just dont understand the reasoning behind the 10 point rule.

and what about english riders???? will they be exempt?

[bulltaco]

Just noticed a new item on the Lochaber website, with the SACU Trials Committee Chairman explaining to them the reason for the enforcement of this rule this year. I can't see how observers, officials or spectators for that matter can use the numbers to know who's who riding in the event unless they are given a list of riders and riding numbers. The only trial I've ever observed at where we were all given such a thing was actually the Lochaber Pollock, the only person who must be given such a list is the SACU Steward. Likewise I can't see anything to stop an unlicenced hanger-on painting"123" on the front of his bike and looking official!. Like several others, I can't help wondering if there has been some particular incident involving rider identification last year. There is, of course, absolutely no reason for riders not to comply with the enforcement of this rule, it's just that some of the riders I've overheard seem to find the reasons for enforcing it rather wooly!. Or is it just a re-surfacing of Scottish competitors old paranoia and suspicion of anything handed down by the SACU trials committee?.

[bikespace]

Lochaber web site? Not been able to find it yet. Giz a clue???

[bulltaco]

I got it at the ACU site- "Clubs" then bookmarked it.

Pretty sure this is it:- www.motorcyclinggb.co.uk/club/lochaber

[bikespace]

Thanks - found it. I was looking for a website of their own.

From reading all of this, my view is (almost unchanged):

All riders should display a number in a trial, for various reasons including:

Spectators may want to identify riders (for interest only)

Observers may need to identify riders - if a rider rides off (or seems to miss their section) they should be able to identify him.

Clarification of which course - if colour system is used for example.

I think the rider numbers should be left up to the club to either issue rider numbers or bibs. They are not expensive at all and this cannot be used as a reason not to use them. They work out at a few pence each.

It doesn't seem to have been thought through. What do English riders use if we visit your Nationals? We have 5 digit numbers, so using the last 3 seems to me that even from my number 96384, there's a possibility of 95 other riders with the same number. If the english are to be issued numbers by the Scottish club, what numbers do they get? Surely these could clash with the possible numbers displayed by Scottish riders?

The illegal rider idea has probably been blown out of proportion as it was mentioned as an aside, but if you have fixed numbers, it is more likely that an illegal rider may have a number and will blend in more than if the club were issuing numbers for the day.

Simplify it - Hand out cheap numbers at each trial like many many clubs do already - we don't have any problems - it works, and as far as I know I have heard no negatives whatsoever.

The last thing I would say is, I think we need to stop knocking the ACU/SACU quite so much. These are not like the trade unions or local government etc where it is hard to believe that they are on our side. These organisations do actually have our best interests at heart. Most of the staff are motorcycling fanatics, who have invested more in to the sport than they will ever get out of it.

If there's some stupid decisionmade (in your opinion), then make your objections known to the people that count. Usually a group of people have voted on these decisions, and it can be overturned if there is enough objection.

Funny how whingers and workers are very rarely the same people.

[idmcc_sec]

Funny how whingers and workers are very rarely the same people.

Oh so very very true........................

This thread is one of the most interesting I've witnessed on this board and deserves a comment or two.

As previously stated this rule has existed for a long time but has never really been enforced, I don't see a problem in sticking 2 or 3 numbers on the front of the bike (retired now but used to do it every year without a qualm)

10 mark penalty .............well, there are rules,regulations and laws all around us in life, and punishments to go with them.............get used to it, stop greetin' and grow up!

Some valid points on the observing and ACU, MCUI riders. IDMCC as a club will have a serious look at this and I think we'll probably issue an individual rider number on different coloured cards to signify which route they're riding at our National Championship and Pre '65 Trials. This should solve the problem.

As far as the Inter Club Team Trial goes, licence numbers will be required as it's only open to Scottish riders.

Edited February 27, 2004 by idmcc_sec

[fatbikedude]

I still dont get the 10 point rule - sorry to be a whinger but the rulebook is full of safety, environmental, and conduct rules to ensure that we all have a good days sport and go home happy. I am not questioning the need to have a number on my bike - i am questioning the penalty of 10 marks for not complying with one of many many rules. what is so special about this particular one? and this penalty is going to cause so much grief and illfeeling (not to mention difficulty)in enforcing.

ps - i do feel entitled to whinge as i do my bit to run at least one trial a year.

[fatbikedude]

There will be no need to impose a 10 mark penalty if the rider has a valid number on, simple as that!

so is this 10 point rule for breaking any rule in the Sup Regs/SACU/ACU/FIM Rules, Standing Regs, National sporting code, ?

furthermore I assume that we will have to take our bikes to sign on now - to prove that we have our licence number on the front of our bike rather than last years ssdt number?

confused whinger

Edited February 27, 2004 by fatbikedude

[bikespace]

It seems to me it's just going to cause problems for no reason, even though I would be more than happy to shove the numbers on myself, I can see it causing a pain in the butt. The alternatives are already out there and working fine.

Next thing you get penalised for the number being the wrong size. They have somewhat vaguely specified 2 inches (I think for the number height) but badly worded so may be the background.

Personal question John - Yours 2 inches?

My computer says you're undersized

Are you likely to be docked 10 points on a technicality along with the bloke who hasn't bothered his a*** at all.

[Andy]

Next thing you get penalised for the number being the wrong size.

Or a big blob of mud turning your 3 into an 8, your 8 into a 0 or some other combination. Unless you're riding happily down Princes Street, number plates do not stay clean and are easily obscured - as a few people on these forums who, like me, have been involved in SSDT results can verify. An illegal rider could easily smear any plate with a few blobs of mud and nobody would be any the wiser.

[overthehill]

reading these posts with interest, and my first question is what is this all about - as a rider i have not been told about this rule change?

Or will clubs have to include it in suplementary regs?

FBD has a point about checking numbers on bikes against licences, Our club has enough trouble finding observers, signing riders on, checking the course and all of the other duties in getting the event going (there are only about 5 of us)and after we have done all this work we usually end up observing!!!

I cant see how we can check everyones number against their licence as well - we have nearly 100 riders at our trial. - or will the SACU Steward do it for us?

Edited February 28, 2004 by overthehill

[bikespace]

Yep - probably is a lot of fuss over nothing. If I was in Scotland I'd shove the number on the front and just mutter a few miserable words to myself , thinking there are better ways to do it, but a few rules now and then seem to come in without much thought.

I still mutter about not being able to go backwards in a section (never mind stop) but I'm probably in a minority on that one (did used to be more fun and its much more skillful than a Spanish 3).

I would imagine that the clubs will not carry out the 10 point rule, as most clubs won't want to alienate a single rider for a rule which doesn't seem to do much.

The way I look at it, if the club thought it was enough of a problem to penalise riders, then it would be much easier just to issue those riders with a "Stacy" number at a cost of about 3p each.

[overthehill]

Mind you if the rider has a number on, no problem!

any number??????

[overthehill]

thats just my point bigjohn - how do organisers know that the number displayed IS the licence number?

and secondly - if a rider accepts 10 marks a trial is it ok for him to ride without any number? - some guys are only out there to have a day out and they dont care what they loose - they will know themselves what they dropped and thats all that matters.

if this rule is so important just make it that they cannot start without a number.

[trialscot]

Well, I've gone through all the postings on here as well as all the SACU info on the Lochaber site and here's my summing up.

I note the exhortations of "Big John" and John Davies, Trials Committee Chairman, (are they the same person?) and others to get out and stick your comp. licence number on your bike without delay, but hang on a minute.

This rule applies only to National/National Restricted trials so the many riders who only compete in closed to club trials are not required to display any number at all!.

AND with Lochaber having used their excellent system of rider and route identification number plates for years and other clubs looking at following suit, competitors will have to wait until they get the Supplementary Regs. for any National/Nat.Restricted trial to see if the organisers are to provide number plates.

As for the 10 mark penalty for failure to display a number, at what point is this judged?. If a rider (say the Scottish Championship leader) arrives at a section having lost his number out on the moor what happens?. The whole point of the rule, according to the gurus on here, is "rider identification". But does rider identification mean "Please Mr.Steward no.13 swore at me" or does it mean" Gosh that was a good clean, oh look it was no13, Joe Bloggs from Consett". If the former OK , if the latter it's only possible if every interested person attending a trial is given an entry list with rider names and numbers. And by the way, as far as I can see from all the SACU bumf, over the hill is quite right in his assertion that the information about the 10 mark penalty does not appear to have been communicated to riders.

With rumblings about cheating and even proven instances of serious errors in results, even Championship results, the SACU Trials Committee have missed an opportunity to tidy up this number/route issue.

It would have been a simple matter to have instructed all clubs running National or National Restricted trials to copy Lochabers example and issue numbers for their event, with the background colour to denote the route being ridden. I noticed that Lochaber not only colour code the riding numbers but for example the "A" route sign on sheets, score sheets and punchcards are all bright yellow to match the number plate. It must make the event secs. job far easier at the end of the day and I overheard some of the English riders at last years Pollock remarking on the super efficiency. I'm surprised that with all these mentions we haven't had some input from Lochaber themselves?.

Finally, I know it's considered bad form to knock the SACU (don't mention Robbie Allan!.) but all this hot air about the implementation of this rule is just another example of a half thought through edict handed down to the hoi polloi. Bull**** Baffles Brains every time, eh?.