rabie Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 How many riders would honestly give up one in ten rides to observe? I can hear the excuses already. but thats how the AMCA MX system operates, meaning to ride club level MX in the midlands, east midlands, north west and parts of Yorkshire you have to play their game alternatively some schoolboy MX clubs run a "no marshal, no ride" rule - every person who enters the event has to bring a marshal! now my club for centre MX's operates a 1 in 4/5 ballot system whereby the riders have to provide one marshal (for half a day) for one of our 4/5 centre meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonsurge Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 How many riders would honestly give up one in ten rides to observe? I can hear the excuses already. I would (and do). And only partly because I want to help the club. See my previous reply in this discussion. I still believe that observing can be a very good learning experience for a rider! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted July 21, 2006 Report Share Posted July 21, 2006 You will see from the above that for the observers, it's easier to make an excuse for not observing than to complain to me.Sensible suggestion please A possible suggestion to combat observer abuse is for each centre to hold a register of offenders. If one rider causes trouble at a trial , the CoC can put in a 'yellow card' for the rider . One more and they get a 'red card' which would result in being banned from all centre trials for a month. Just an idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted July 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2006 A very good idea AA but i dont think thats the problem locally. The problem seems to stem from the entrants getting older and now turning up at trials just themselves on their own in the van. If they are accompanied then like as not the person is also riding. The days when the family came along are long gone. At some of the events i've noticed there didnt seem to be any spectators wandering around to collar for observing at all. The problem is how do you get people to come to what is very much a participant not a spectator sport? At least if there is a youth entry class then there is a chance that they will be accompnaied by someone who may not be riding and will hopefully observe. We are back full circle again to the arguemant that riders in a club at some point will have to give up at least one ride a year to observe in a trial or it will be down to "whoever picks the board up marks it" which is oh so wrong on so many counts. I get the feeling that abuse is more common in other areas than it is in this one. Thank goodness for that. I do like the AMCA MX idea. Definately worth consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Hi guys. It is wenesday night ,and it might seem like a silly idea, but why dont we use video cams set up to watch sections , then you only need one observer at the end of the trial?.And any one that stands in front of these gets barred for life. Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomant Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 A very good idea AA but i dont think thats the problem locally. The problem seems to stem from the entrants getting older and now turning up at trials just themselves on their own in the van. If they are accompanied then like as not the person is also riding. The days when the family came along are long gone. At some of the events i've noticed there didnt seem to be any spectators wandering around to collar for observing at all.The problem is how do you get people to come to what is very much a participant not a spectator sport? At least if there is a youth entry class then there is a chance that they will be accompnaied by someone who may not be riding and will hopefully observe. We are back full circle again to the arguemant that riders in a club at some point will have to give up at least one ride a year to observe in a trial or it will be down to "whoever picks the board up marks it" which is oh so wrong on so many counts. I get the feeling that abuse is more common in other areas than it is in this one. Thank goodness for that. I do like the AMCA MX idea. Definately worth consideration. A standard trial consisting of 10 sections would mean you would have to give up 1 in 5 trials (if there were say 50 riders on average of course). The trouble is that means that only 40 riders would be riding as 10 were observing and thats 20% lost income to the club. What club could afford losing 20% of its income? And furthermore, as a CoC myself, I want as many people as possible to ride the sections I laid out to make the job worthwhile. Therefore, ideally you need a system that allows all riders to ride at every event who turn up I feel, so lets keep expanding ideas on this front one idea I have toted before is the use of tally counters like this below: Riders could be grouped in teams of 2 riders on a random 'name out of the hat' basis and be responsible for scoring the other rider. Another idea would be to have a punch card for the other rider on your bike and you punch it accordingly and he does one for you. yes theres a possibility of cheating but it wont be long before the cheaters are found out. I will keep thinking of ideas on this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gii Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Telephone, Telephone, Telephone, Telephone, Telephone, Telephone, Telephone, Telephone, Telephone, Telephone, Telephone, It works, believe me. For a 10 section trial. Phone 60+ people, get 12 to commit, 8 will turn up, you've only got to find 2 on the day. Start early, ask every observer you see in the 3 trials before yours if they'll observe for you. Get their number! The day of the trial is too late, it's days or weeks too late. Don't muck about with rules no one will listen too, don't tell members who have turned up to ride that they can't, don't upset people. Get your observers early, and if you think it's going to be a problem, get them earlier then keep reminding them how important they are. Loads of people coming up with loads of laudable/utopian ideas that will leave you scratching around on the day. Do it the hard way, ask people early and ask till you've got more than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 i have to agree, in a Tony Blair style "Communication, communication, communication" - really does work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldie Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 at my club in the east midlands we've most of what has been said on this thread ,some worked well & some failed miserably. It seems to me that you can never judge the observer turnout as on the last to trials we held, 1 prior to the world cup, we had 18 observers for 10 sections & the last trial we held, after the world cup we had only 6 observers for 10 sections. My own opinion is that there is some very reliable observers who come to events week in week out & some that not observe at all,& as riders we should thank them for giving their day up.The biggest problem that we have had is when we've run a round of the youth championship. The same excuse that is turned out over & over again is 'i want to watch my lad ride'. ok haven't a problem with that when all the sections are taken but at 1 youth event there was over 50 parents walkin round & only 6 manned sections. Maybe in situations like that you don't start the event until all sections are manned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sutty Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 the problem is national with observes and the fact that we are all to polite we should take the approch of motorcross where you have to bring a marshall and they ethermarshall in the morning or in the afternoon if you dont bring one you dont ride as simple as that providing we all stick together as clubs it will work ok big entrys dont need 50+ observers but make a note of which riders observer has done the last few trials and that way you can see who is doing the most and who isnt making the effort its not just the clubs problem its the riders aswell ignorence isnt the ansew after all the trial is for the riders with out club officials to set it out there would be no trials yours in sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted August 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 Sutty if your idea was adopted then i might as well sell the bikes now. Assuming i could then find anybody to sell them to as unless the person buying them had a "pet" observer then they wouldnt be able to use them either so trials bikes would be little use to anybody. Believe me i have tried. The wife hates trials, my neighbours hate bikes, my workmates think i'm weird as i'm not football or golf obsessed, my dad who used to come when i was younger is dead so apart from hireing an observer through advertising in the local paper etc i would not be able to ride. The idea is fine till you work it out. Will never work for everybody. Some yes but a lot of riders are in my position. It is a difficult one i agree. I still feel that a parallel should be drawn with local football matches. What we need is a corps of observers all qualified in some form and maybe even registered with the ACU, AMCA whatever who can be called on and booked for your upcoming trial. One other thing i have noticed some weeks there is a real clash of events in my area and clubs need to get together more to stop dates clashing as this also dilutes the pool of available observers. Whatever happens it cant go on like this. Something needs to be done or we might as well not bother and just pay the fee and treat it as free practice day and then you dont need any observers at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpa3 Posted August 9, 2006 Report Share Posted August 9, 2006 As I've mentoned previously, we offer a free ride to any rider who supplys an Observer. This doesn't get any more offers of help as a rule, but it does make our job a little easier when you can approach someone with the offer. I would be happy to pay a professional team of Observers to come to our events if there was such a body of people..... trouble is; how much would such a body of people cost? Not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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