Where Does Trials Go In The Future?

[atomant]

Looking at some old Kick-start videos the other day, then watching the world round at Hawkstone, its pretty clear to anyone that with modern machinery and new levels of fitness and skill from the 'pilots' , trials has progressed to an unprecedented level.. but my question is :-

Where can it go from here?

I will probably be a bit unpopular with this comment but I didn't find this years Hawkstone as good as last years (TC Party excluded). Even though it was clear that the organisation was virtually spot on and the best you will see anywhere.

The reasons being that I had already seen the riders ride a lot of the sections (or similar) last year so I knew that they could do them so there wasn’t that feeling of anticipation and excitement waiting to see if anyone was going to clean section 8 for instance. Last year I camped by it for most of the trial, this year I was at it once for about 20 minutes as the top guys went through. Still impressive skill but not the excitement. did anyone else feel like that?

Another point (as already mentioned) was that last year Dougie was having an awesome second lap and we were on tenterhooks watching the scores to see if he was going to pull it off. It was pure theatre.. This year, that wasn’t the case and the atmosphere just wasn’t the same.

This of course is taking nothing away from the good rides by Michael , Alexz ,Sam, James etc... but I think everyone was hoping for the 100th . I would guess that the pressure on Dougie to pull that off in front of the huge home crowd must have been immense.

The thing that I did like a lot was Fujigas when he is riding like that. He is great to watch as he is unpredictable so comes with excitement as standard!

But… getting back to the question, the bikes can still be improved a bit but I cant see another ‘big step’ made by monoshock & suspension technology that will take trials up to an even higher level than it already is ( if that is even possible?)

It would be nice to hear a variety of thoughts from others on this topic so…… what do you think?

Where does it, can it go from here?

[neonsurge]

If the existing world trials format is left to evolve naturally, the riders will get better, bike technology will progess and the sections will get bigger and scarier until someone gets seriously hurt (or even killed) at which point there'll be a period of confusion and seemingly endless debate until a new world trials format emerges from the depths of the FIM. In reality, I'm sure that rule changes would be introduced to prevent such a nightmare scenario (a return to non-stop or bike capacity limits maybe) but I think there's a far simpler solution.

The Kickstart format worked and was popular with the general public. Why not take that as a starting point and update it? Shorter laps, 10 second penalty per dab, fastest man wins and a mix of natural and indoor sections. Break the lap up with a few "special tests" where the clock stops and the rider has to tackle a more technical/bigger section, similar to those in the current world championship (still incurring time penalties per dab and with a maximum time limit for the section). So there'd be a mix of the old and the new, it'd be more TV-friendly (and therefore more attractive to "outside" sponsors). Best of both worlds?

Problem is, this would never work at club level but I'm not sure it needs to. World trials is already significantly different to club trials anyway and there's not (usually) the danger problem so there's no reason why "traditional" trials can't continue as they do now.

Just idle daydreaming really but if the sport is to grow in terms of public perception and commercial opportunities I think something like this needs to happen. I guess the next question is, does the trials world want change on this scale? Should trials remain the eccentric, slightly scary cousin of the rest of the motorcycle sport world?

Edited August 3, 2006 by neonsurge

[baldilocks]

I thought about this from a different point of view having not been there but seen the results. In the WTC currently there are 5 people , possibly 6 who could win a round. These people on their day are brilliant in a way you cant imagine until you see it live.

BUT

Whilst some of those people want harder trials as its a world championship its becoming increasingly difficult for others to ride the course. I think Dabill and Morris and last week Michael Phillipson do very well but who else could actually ride without hurting themselves ?

I wouldn't set out a club trial for 12 people but last weekend thats how many where competing on the full course and we have the same problem at the british championship.

I dont think we should consider TV as that alone wont sustain trials. The format needs to work for the riders and if people want to watch thats great but its a bonus, you need the riders first.

So I think trials has to go to a format which will allow more people to compete and I think the previous post about people getting seriously injured before long is a valid point.

[trialsmm]

I was just thinking about the future of "trials" also. Looks like the top 5 riders can just about ride up and over

anything possible. Where does it stop? I don't see world trials popularity going much further?

I've now seen a "world event" in person and wouldn't go out of my way to plan another long weekend

to spectate. I would be glad to help at another event. I don't see the general public going to trials events more than once or twice. Other motorcycle events, yes, but not trials. Trials is all about riding not much for spectators. (Of couse it looks like more events have man-made sections for the spectators)

Local motorcycle shops in the US will never support trials because there's not money to be made.

Sorry but I'm on the down hill slide anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[mich lin]

The non-stop rules have worked well at the Scottish Six Days! As unpopular as the idea is to many modern trials riders. It must be observed that all of the sports current problems with the world championship was started with the introduction of the new stop and hop rules. But we must also consider that only a handful of people in the world can ride a MotoGP or drive a Formula One car. So maybe the problem is not as big as we think because the levels in those sports has also gone up.

TV must also be factored into the equation for growth and sales of the world championship. It's simply impractical to have more than a couple thousand spectators on an outdoor world championship course. TV is the only logical way to bring the action to the general public worldwide.

Take golf for example, how many people traveled to the British open vs the number of people who saw Tiger Woods win it on TV? Consider we all have busy lives, yet love the sport. How else but major TV coverage can the need for a quick overview of a trials GP for the busy fans be filled?

Then at the same time open up oppertunities for corperations to sell their products to these same hard working folks who have a sincere interest in the sport? Only TV coverage offers an open window to a Trials GP for most people. It also cannot be sold simply to those willing to show up in person for bigger sponsorship dollars to be produced for a TrialsGP. It takes a vehicle for the corperations to have a platform to sell their products on before more economic growth can happen. The vehicle has to be more TV coverage.

[mwtajimbo]

All sports advance, look at supercross, going from the ski jump style 80's stadium courses to the 75 foot triples, step ups and step downs, Crazy technical feats. It is only natural for the sport to get more and more difficult as riders get better and better. Like AA said, it would get boring if you didn't get to see them do something more and more spectacular each time you watched. Freestyle moto is a perfect example, not even two years ago the back flip was all the rage, now a lone backflip in a routine won't even get you on the podium.

I am all for the harder sections, each rider knows the risks and rewards of competing.

People die riding the Isle of Mann TT and they don't quit racing there?

[neils on wheels]

I think divergence will be the name of the game, with world & national championships remaining or becoming more elitist, whilst 'big day out' single lap trials and multi day events experience growing entries.

Raga's comments in the Hawkstone programme were interesting as they relate to spectator friendliness, i.e. shorter trials near to urban centres. Maybe not too surprising from a guy who thrives indoors but it could possibly widen the appeal.

From a personal point of view I love the annual fix of seeing the world's best (or at least the backs of their several minders) at very close range - closer than in any other world class sport I can think of - and will always prefer the live atmosphere to TV.

The other possibility is trials parks. A few more clubs are buying or securing access to land and more holiday places are spinging up, often at farm based venues. Another possible source of divergence could mirror that in mountain biking, with the play-riders (practicing & trick riding at private venues) becoming distinct from the marathon competitors for whom a day out in the hills is as much the attraction as the sections.

[donmurray]

Looks like trials keeps moving further from any normal form of motorcycling. There's some very impressive esoteric riding, but it may be appealing to a smaller and smaller group. It's more like motobatics. Too much stuff that's totally removed from bike riding. The hopping looks a little silly. Other ideas that would get the sport closer to something all riders can relate to:

1. A min weight limit that's just a little less than the average trail bike.

2. A required seat at a min height

3. Min tank capacity

4. Four strokes only.

5. Some small point reduction (negative points?) for quicker times, and keep sections tight to reduce risk.

6. Points for hopping and stopping

Just make them start and RIDE through a section.

[fellonmelug]

What about controlling the compounds used in the tyres? ie making the tyres harder

[the artist formerly known as ish]

I still think for world trials, gate trials is the answer.

It solves many of the observer problems, allows more riders to ride the same course.

The rider takes on just what he thinks he can clean, but the more risks they take the bigger the reward, yet one dab and they get no score for that section.

All the observer has to do is add up total points earned for gates ridden, and a 0 if the rider dabs, man with most points wins.

Very interesting for the spectator, because riders will change lines and how many gates they take on depending on how they are doing, if it is close then they will be going for the big scores, if they have a good lead they may play it safe and ride an easier line.

Because the lines change depending on the scores less sections will be needed to get more variety in each section.

Rest of trials seem to be doing fine, leave well alone.

[dan]

I don't really understand why people want to 'dumb down' trials? To me the main problem with FIM regulations at the moment is that the time limits are too tight. I understand that an extra 30 seconds for each rider in each section could cause problems with the trial running on too long, but I think it impinges upon the nature of the sport to have riders rushing to get through a section. If you want to compete in a sport where the point is to get through difficult terrain as quickly as possible then go and ride enduros! What I'd like to see done with the rules is for time limits to be increased to a point where no reasonable attempt at a section will involve in a rider getting close to running out of time (so it's just there to stop people taking the p***) and pretty much all other rules except one mark per dab up to a maximum of 3 and 5 for falling off / leaving the section taken out of the equation. If a rider has the skill to move side to side and place the bike exactly where they want it, without stepping outside of the 'taking the p***' time limit, then I see no reason why that shouldn't be allowed. Trials is about bike control, and if you have the control to do something like that in a section then it should be encouraged.

To my mind hopping and flipping the bike around is a great thing to watch. The skill involved in a rider getting him/herself inch perfect on the edge of some silly step is incredible, whether it's done in world level competition or by local experts. All the non-riders I've exposed to such things tend to be equally impressed and wowed by the beauty of it when a rider gets it all right. Although the interest of non-riders is something I think we need to question as well; I'm just not sure why people seem to want to grow the sport? We already have a severe lack of places to ride, and this is only going to get worse if we start getting greater influxes of people into the sport. Not only that, but a drastic increase in the trials community would threaten to shatter the very nature of the 'community' that exists around trials riders. Sure, I can see there are a lot of advantages to more people coming into the sport and as such more money being able to be thrown around, but frankly I like it just the way it is.

I think this may all be a little academic however. For me the biggest change looming over the trials world is the impending fuel shortages; it's fairly clear that in the not to distant future fuel will almost certainly not be available for leisure activities. At that point the sport is going have to change, and drastically, if it has any chance of surviving at all. I guess the obvious place to look is a more modern and more advanced version of the electric trials bike made by Denali almost a decade ago.

[barrybaines]

I like this thread and it`s strange how you can kind of tell the older riders from the younger ones!

I personally love the hopping and jumping skill in trials (shame I can`t do it!) and too be honest that and a bit of the good old eurosport coverage is pretty much what got me into it only this year!

I can see also that progression in any sport HAS too happen too keep it alive what with bike technolodgy progressing year on year and rider skill level will always increase too meet these expectations as long as they are brought in at the same rate of pace as the technolodgy. The issue is if you push this balance one way or the other too soon you WILL end up with injurys that could put the whole sport into the wrong type of publicity especially if it was one of our many up and coming British youth riders!

Well theres my take on this! only ment too write two lines!

[motojojo]

I agree with the time limit but the camping out with your foot on the ground is cheating. Alot of people I know won't even watch trials anymore. If your stopped and have your foot on the ground its a 5. I think they let to many riders slide on that in the '90s. Bring it back!

[atomant]

I still think for world trials, gate trials is the answer.

It solves many of the observer problems, allows more riders to ride the same course.

The rider takes on just what he thinks he can clean, but the more risks they take the bigger the reward, yet one dab and they get no score for that section.

All the observer has to do is add up total points earned for gates ridden, and a 0 if the rider dabs, man with most points wins.

Very interesting for the spectator, because riders will change lines and how many gates they take on depending on how they are doing, if it is close then they will be going for the big scores, if they have a good lead they may play it safe and ride an easier line.

Because the lines change depending on the scores less sections will be needed to get more variety in each section.

Rest of trials seem to be doing fine, leave well alone.

I haven't heard of that idea before but on the face of it , it sounds an interesting idea and worth considering.

Just thinking of what might happen. Would the riders not all take the safe lines and all finish on max points so they all win?

It would become like a game of chess with others watching the others scores like crazy and taking the relevant lines that will give them the win. But those who take the chances and succeed will be victors. .. sounds possible ?

[atomant]

......if it has any chance of surviving at all. I guess the obvious place to look is a more modern and more advanced version of the electric trials bike made by Denali almost a decade ago.

Interesting forward thinking. I think that if electric bikes were developed then you could have urban trials without any problems from the environmentalists.. and even further, Trials would be seen in a different light.

For the current outdoor trials then its light years away.. I think unless the bikes could be as powerful as current combustion engines, then people would just stop doing it.