Where Does Trials Go In The Future?

[jack_h]

instead of making the obstacles more bigger and dangerous why dont they shorten the run up to the stuff they are riding now. the sections and still getting harder but the possibiltiy of serious injury is much less likely.

[baldilocks]

Thats a good point, we all love watching them ride up huge steps but its often not the kind of section that actually takes marks off the top lads. Take any factory bike with loads of power and set out 10 sections on wet limestone or a green slimey stream, marks will be dropped and nobody gets hurt.

I have to say I like the current time limit. I gave a video to a non riding mate once from paris bercy. I asked what he thought of it and he said

"Its great, this bloke was balancing a bike between two digger buckets, so I went and made a cup of tea and when I came back he was still there !! Boring ! "

I think the time limit stops this and also reduces the queues at sections

[jack_h]

Thats a good point, we all love watching them ride up huge steps but its often not the kind of section that actually takes marks off the top lads. Take any factory bike with loads of power and set out 10 sections on wet limestone or a green slimey stream, marks will be dropped and nobody gets hurt.

I have to say I like the current time limit. I gave a video to a non riding mate once from paris bercy. I asked what he thought of it and he said

"Its great, this bloke was balancing a bike between two digger buckets, so I went and made a cup of tea and when I came back he was still there !! Boring ! "

I think the time limit stops this and also reduces the queues at sections

i think thats the way to go mate. instead of making the steps bigger make the sections more twisty and on harder terrain. it will make trials even more about the riders skill than just the bikes power

[dan]

Interesting forward thinking. I think that if electric bikes were developed then you could have urban trials without any problems from the environmentalists.. and even further, Trials would be seen in a different light.

For the current outdoor trials then its light years away.. I think unless the bikes could be as powerful as current combustion engines, then people would just stop doing it.

Wasn't the Denali touted as being almost as powerful as a 125 of it's day? That's probably somewhat of an exaggeration; but I think if a serious trials factory put their development muscle behind a new model, and combined with some of the advances being made with electric motors, we could see a bike being a serious contender with combustion engines quite quickly (comparatively to the life of combustion engines that is). A well developed electric engine may even be more suited to trials than combustion as they're capable of picking up power far faster than any comparable combustion engine can. I do think it would change the face of trials, but probably only further in the direction it's already going: with the lighter weight and faster power delivery I think we'd see the gap between motorbike and pushbike trials narrow even further. The sort of power delivery seen from an electric motor would probably encourage the sort of sections people are asking for here as well, with faster acceleration and lower top end things would conceivably have to get tighter and a bit smaller.

I have to say I like the current time limit. I gave a video to a non riding mate once from paris bercy. I asked what he thought of it and he said

"Its great, this bloke was balancing a bike between two digger buckets, so I went and made a cup of tea and when I came back he was still there !! Boring ! "

I think the time limit stops this and also reduces the queues at sections

I agree we definitely need the time limit, I just want to see it raised. I've seen a few world round sections where every rider has had to paddle through a section just to have a hope of getting through in the time; those are extreme examples but it should show where my problem lies with this. Just an extra 30 seconds for each section would make a massive difference and mean the riders would be much less likely to feel rushed. I just don't think worrying about getting through a section quickly enough should be an issue in trials.

[manz]

There has been alot of talking about modern trials. The sport should evolve, just like any other motorsport. Limiting bike cc's, changing the compound in the tyres, adding minimum wheight rules, non-stop is like limiting wrc with a 65mph speed limit. (50 on gravel).

All other sports have limitations. All other sports feature deaths, serious injuries etc. Serious injuries are very uncommon in trials. Worst crash I've seen was lampkin in duluth 04. Could that have been avoided with non-stop rules? Trials is a "skill sport", where other are more.. speeding sports. (not saying they don't have skills).

Just a thought; how would non-stop rules get more publicity/more riders? You can't hop the bike (flipping not counted), allmost everytime you hop, you use your brakes, hence, the bike has stopped), it's a nightmare to mind. Did he really stop or no? It works in the SSDT, where (all?) sections are mostly of rock sections, which are pretty much.. straight.

Trials needs more tv-coverage, and you won't be getting that by showing guys on wierd looking bikes in wierd looking outfits running up and down a dry steambed, or zigzaging between trees on a slope. It has to have something special compared to the other sports. It has to look "cool". Precision bike control, hard turns, steps, slopes, water and mud. If you want non-stop to look hard for the mainstream, you have to add really high steps (just like they had). Only thing that has changed, is that the run-up to the steps have shortened.

Time limits should be variable: ie, longer sections, more time. The rider shouldn't have to hurry through the section, but otoh, he shouldnt be able to balance before each step for 15 seconds either.

All above concerns WTC. Club trials are pretty ok at the moment, with a lot of riders. Club trials should be fun to ride, as nobody is economically dependent on the result. I'd like a few non-stop trials a year, just to make it different. WTC is ment for the true experts. What would be the point in making the sections so easy, that the first 5 guys competes on 1-2 dabs, so that #20 can get through 4 more sections? How many drivers are really able to compete for victory in f1?

Didn't mean to offend anybody. Just my personal opinion.

[neonsurge]

All other sports have limitations. All other sports feature deaths, serious injuries etc. Serious injuries are very uncommon in trials. Worst crash I've seen was lampkin in duluth 04. Could that have been avoided with non-stop rules? Trials is a "skill sport", where other are more.. speeding sports. (not saying they don't have skills).

But if world-level trials was allowed to evolve naturally, would we eventually have a sport where almost all the sections are potentially life-threatening if a rider makes a mistake? If so, would that make it more attractive to the general public? Because like it or not, evolution has not yet managed to remove the primeval part of the human brain that wants to see carnage and blood. I don't think so because seeing a rider slowly topple off the edge of a 30 foot step is still not as "exciting" as seeing a superbike hitting a tree at 200mph during the TT and exploding in a storm of white-hot shrapnel.

I'm being slightly facetious but just because death and serious injury are part and parcel of other motorsports doesn't mean that it should also be an element of trials: As has already been pointed out, trials is very different in both philosophy and tradition. For example, give a mediocre road racer a bike with twice as much horsepower and better handling than their rivals and they'll stand a better-than-usual chance of winning the race. Give a mediocre trials rider Raga's or Dougie's bike and they'd still come dead last against more experienced and talented opposition on standard machinery. Trials is the eccentric, slightly scary uncle-that-you-don't-see-very-often member of the motorcycle sport family and if the hypothesised world of "ultra extreme" world trials becomes a reality it will represent a significant "dumbing down" of the sport as a whole. How much real skill is involved in launching up a series of massive steps compared with riding non-stop around a section of slippery rocks and off-camber roots? You could argue that there's more bravery involved with the "rev, splat" style, but bravery doesn't necessarily come from skill and experience and it's the skill element that trials should emphasise moving forwards.

All in my perpetually uninformed and inexperienced opinion of course. I'm well prepared for a slap-down following recent forum exploits...

[old trials fanatic]

No slapdown youre spot on.

Why does Trials "need" more TV coverage ????? What will that do for the sport at grass roots level???

Bugger all. No more than the massive TV coverage of football has much to do with the lads down on the park on Sunday. Apart from an increased lack of sportmanship and abuse of officials that is.

Why does Trials have to become a mega prime time sport anyway?? Also whats the benefit for us in that??

Will bikes be cheaper ? Doubt it. Will events be more fun? Deffinately not.

Look what happened when they introduced the no stop rule. The sport was taken over by trick riding kids who's background was BMX or cycle trials and who had no deep seated interest in the sport of trials and by and large put bugger all back into the sport before clearing off to yet another adrenaline high.

Nah Trials needs a period of stability and reflection to lick its wounds. Only once the average club trial can boast 100 rider entries as the norm with all sections staffed by observers and run over proper natural hazards will it need to introduce even more circus entertainment. Theres been too much of that and it's nearly killed the sport at grass roots level which personally is the only level i ACTUALLY care about.

Rant over. Waiting for the flamming and slapdowns. You wont see it but i'm right.

[woody]

Pretty much spot on - but don't you mean when they introduced the stop and hop rules

[fordson major]

Right here's my opinion for what it's worth (not that much)...

I'd hate to see someone get seriously hurt or even killed as was mentioned earlier, but if the sport gets limited and restricted I think World Championship trials would become repetitive and the trials public will lose interest. I think impossibly slippy limestone kind of sections as mentioned earlier would be a good solution

Impossible in everyway though it seems I would love to see a World Championship Trial set on the Yorkshire Moors (I know I'm biased ) or on SSDT terrain as opposed to the dry, dusty, man-made stuff we see at almost every round .A bit of bad weather wouldn't go a miss either (winter), see how the Spaniards cope with the cold, just as Lampkin and the other Brits have to put up with the extreme heat abroad.

The list of problems facing this dream seems endless though

Not very spectator friendly or accessable

Parking problems

Factory trucks

Not near enough to any motorways (I'd hate trials to become more urbanised as mentioned earlier, part of my love of trials is spending time in the beautiful Yorkshire countryside)

Bad weather would put off Fair-weather fans

Bad weather might not be Telly friendly with cameras getting knackered

Spaniards would probably complain about the conditions and get their own way

General lack of money earnt by trial because of reasons mentioned above

And the list goes on.......

Because of all these reasons I can't see any organisers putting in the super-human effort needed to get an idea like this off the ground.

Edited August 4, 2006 by Beta120690

[old trials fanatic]

Sorry woodie you are correct i meant when they introduced the stop hop roll back scratch your nose/bum/whatever ask your minder rule.

Beta120690 I too would like to see a World round held on "Real" terrain using sections created in the main by Mother Nature like you suggest.

The governing factor in all forms of Motor Sport is grip. It's no use having the most powerful motor etc if that can not be transfered to terra firma. If you want to reintroduce the skill into trials and also reduce the chance of injury then limit the ammount of grip from the tyres. Now this can be achieved by altering the compound and construction of the tyre, have you tried an original Dunlop Trials Universal lately??, or you make the terrain more greasy, slippy etc.

Indoor Supercross and freestyle has now removed itself so far from Moto Cross that there is no connection. WTC Trials is well along the way. Indoor Trials already is. Maybe that is a good thing? I personally dont give a damn. It's the effect on grass roots level Trials that concerns me and the way the sport is headed at that level.

ref your earlier comments

Not very spectator friendly or accessable [so? Trials always was a participant sport not a spectator one]

Parking problems [as in WRC Rally events have spectator super special stages if you have to]

Factory trucks [?????? irrelevant stick them in the car park field with the rest]

Not near enough to any motorways (I'd hate trials to become more urbanised as mentioned earlier, part of my love of trials is spending time in the beautiful Yorkshire countryside) [ You mean ther is somewhere in this fair land that isnt within 50 miles of a Motorway?]

Bad weather would put off Fair-weather fans [Good fair weather fans are not real fans let them go to the areana Trials. They put nothing back into the sport. Who needs them?]

Bad weather might not be Telly friendly with cameras getting knackered [Whats this obsession with TV? WRC Rally rounds get televised. Hand held cameras are now so good the major news companies use them all the time]

Spaniards would probably complain about the conditions and get their own way[thats defeatist plus Spaniards have a good track record at the Scottish in all weathers so hardly valid]

General lack of money earnt by trial because of reasons mentioned above [ Who is this money going to? the land owner? Doubt it. The promoter? Probably but as it's a World Championship Round the riders have little choice but to attend and the volunteers who do most of the work for the love of the sport see bugger all money anyway so who cares? What about selling the video on line and on DVD. Download as a podcast ? If you can do it with music why not Trials coverage. ]

You made some good valid points none of which are insurmountable. Why should a properly presented programme covering a World Round on real terrain not be marketable to a TV audience if that is what you want? The TV companies do a damn good job with WRC events and the Paris Dakar, Tour de France etc etc.

Trials doesnt need to become "Gladiators" to survive and grow and it needs TV no more than rock climbing and many other sports does.

[fordson major]

Sorry to say it but what the 'fair-weather fans' put back into the sport is money. The FIM/Octagon wouldn't even consider holding a trial that would cost more to organise/set-up than would be earnt back.

Maybee I didn't word the motorway bit right, a lot of the prima-dona top riders need there big fancy motorhomes and getting them to the venue on remote, narrow roads wouldn't work. Don't argue this point with me, it's just the way it is.

I don't think the tyres want altering, rather it were the terrain

[jack_h]

i don't think trials needs big TV coverage. Many of my mates at school have seen the indoors on eurosport and they still think its slow and boring.

Trials does not really attract idiots. with all the extra coverage our sport would be seen more by them and therefore making the sport less friendly.

on a better point tv coverage would show to people what the sport is. Many people i have met think trials is about going fast and racing and not the skill and balance that trials does need.

[manz]

All other sports have limitations. All other sports feature deaths, serious injuries etc. Serious injuries are very uncommon in trials. Worst crash I've seen was lampkin in duluth 04. Could that have been avoided with non-stop rules? Trials is a "skill sport", where other are more.. speeding sports. (not saying they don't have skills).

But if world-level trials was allowed to evolve naturally, would we eventually have a sport where almost all the sections are potentially life-threatening if a rider makes a mistake? If so, would that make it more attractive to the general public? Because like it or not, evolution has not yet managed to remove the primeval part of the human brain that wants to see carnage and blood. I don't think so because seeing a rider slowly topple off the edge of a 30 foot step is still not as "exciting" as seeing a superbike hitting a tree at 200mph during the TT and exploding in a storm of white-hot shrapnel.

I exaggerated the post a bit intentionally. We don't want blood and carnage (for that we have eurosports fight club . What I meant was WTC hasn't evolved to that stage yet, and I hope it never will. But at the moment - it hasn't been too dangerous. Theese guys pretty much know what they're doing. You should let WTC evolve, but you certainly shouldn't let club level trials get "dangerous for the average rider". It isn't fun if your class evolves faster than the majority of the riders.

TV coverage helps to introduce the sports to the masses, and would help getting more people to ride. OK so you would have to que abit more at the sections, but you would have more trials.

Looking at the amount of kids racing MX and comparing that to how many kids ride trials... And how somebody posted that parents would think trials to be dangerous? Doesn't seem so. I think most of the parents (whos kids ride mx) really don't know what trials acctually is.

As the last post, there's no intention to hurt anybodys feelings.

[judyf]

world and british trials at the moment is like a circus! the sections just get bigger and bigger but the top 5 riders are that gud they just keep cleaning them, dont get me wrong its amazing to watch, and they are the most skillful of motorcycle riders! but people who ride at a high level know its not just bout big rock steps all the time, put a 10foot rock in front of raga and lampkin un they will get up it every time, there needs to be more thought put in2 the sections, and the current rules are crap, the riders are that gud now that if you let them stop and hop without penelty they will clean almost everyfing, i remember goin to patley bridge in 93 un there was like 30 odd riders, rate gud trial, rate hard, but natural hard stuff, not rev the B*****ks off un up a massive outcrop every section which jus gets boring, un now theres like 12 riders (i know theres youths un juniors) but only oliveras/ gilbert and brown are gud enough to do the main route, oh and ely of course. there like 15 other world class riders plenty gud enough to ride world rounds (pascuet, nozaki, tanaka, bruand, etc) but wots the piont them spending **** loads of money trveling to ride them trials, its not the people who set the sections out cos they do a great job, i know wot its like you can never please every1 and its hard work, its not them whos at blame for the sections, its the f.i.m, and the a.c.u, they need to realise that the sections cant keep getting harder, jus make them more like trials, raga would drop more in a novgar than a world round at the moment (well he wunt but u know wot i mean) in formula and racing it was getting to dangerous and fast so they alter the tracks and the bikes, they need to do the same we trials, also instead of the a.c.u sending like 7 members and officals to every world round and staying in hotels, drinking wine, dancing we bitches and not actually knowing why they are there accept spending our entry fee money on stuff they dont need to, or throwing big dinners at fancey hotels when the cud be investing money like wot the other countrys do in there top riders, at the moment we have the best young riders in the world, and if the a.c.u stop spending all our money on ****, and them selfs and invested it in, dabil, brown, morris,danby,challoner, ellwood, morton, sampson, haslem, andrews etc, we wud hav the best riders in the world for the next 20years! infact at the trials des nations we cud have british a, b, and c teams and come 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, anyway this post is prob the longest in the world but to end it trials needs

* stops a 1 rule back ( and make every trial the same or no stop)

* more money invested in trials riders

*more training days for youths

*revise the standard of sections, it dunt need to be rev splat, rev splat! or if your not in the top 10, rev splat, rev splat oh crash, broken spine, broken bike, arr **** no money, cant go to work, are **** it a.c.u will pay or ge me some help, oh no wait a min, there all in majorca drinking san migel we golden bronze tans!

*and try un living up the out door sence like the indoors, try and make trials an intereting sport again, un have like 35-40 riders in a world round, and sure that if the sections were like they were bk in like 93-94-95 ppl like austermuhle, mcdonald, thorpe, baker, etc would have a go un do well, have a few cleans and enjoy it, but at the moment its *****! Thanks anyway, lets hope trials changes for the better before every1s ridind enduro, or in the pub, nicework.xxxxxxxxxxxx

[barrybaines]

Man that was hard work trying too decifer what ever language that is?