Classic Trials: More Fun Than Modern Trials?

[the artist formerly known as ish]

Reading the topic about the UK twin shock series TMX, Dicko asked the question, was it the eased section's and the fact riders could ride them, that was the real incentive, and once clubs started providing a clubmans course riders started migrateing back to modern bikes on the easier course.

[old trials fanatic]

Exactly the reason i've just bought a pinky. At my age and with my lack of ability even a Pre65 is getting hard work on the Clubman route. So when the aircooled mono class was introduced it appealed to me. Also didnt want to trash the 340 6speed so it was twinshock or aircooled mono and the pinky won on spares and reliabilty plus i loved my old one.

Still run the B40 at Midland Classic events but looking forward to using the mono as it gives me a ride locally more than once a month.

Didnt fancy the modern mono route as those sort of sections are not my style and if you ride the Clubmans route on a modern bike to me it seems like cheating. Only my opinion i am NOT passing judgement on any who do.

Edited August 17, 2006 by Old trials fanatic

[paioli]

not passing judgment, thats exactly what youve done and in print

modern bikes on the clubman route, they should all be taken out and shot !

thank god your opinion, doesn't mean jack s**t

cheating for your infomation is when someone does something against the rules

but then again its all too easy to call someone a cheat or immature from the safety

of your own computer .

[scorpa3]

I can't see any problem with riding what ever bike you like on which ever route you choose.

Once certain bikes are restricted to certain routes the only thing that can happen is that the club will loose entries.

If an Expert wishes to have an easy day out and ride the clubman route for no award, then this is no problem at all. Almost all of us ride for fun and that is what trials should be all about. Having a good day out on the bike with like minded people.

[old trials fanatic]

Didnt fancy the modern mono route as those sort of sections are not my style and if you ride the Clubmans route on a modern bike to me it seems like cheating. Only my opinion i am NOT passing judgement on any who do.

I did say "Only my opinion" now i understood that we still had free speech in this country and as such i am "allowed" to have an opion as much as you are Paioli. I dont recolect calling any body a cheat that would be uncalled for and would be up to the clerk of the course anyway. All i was trying to get over was that if I rode a modern bike in the events i enter which will be Peak Classic as i will still ride a Pre65 bike in Midland Classic events then I would feel as if I was cheating. As for the "immature" comment i can only assume that you refer to a passing comment i made about what appeared to be a little "over the top" reaction to a posting made by Woodie in an earlier posting re converting a TY250 mono to a twinshock and then riding in the twinshock class. Yes i felt that your response did show an ammount of immaturity as Woodie was only expressing an opinion which he is entitled to do as are you as are all of us. And for what it is worth i STILL agree with him that modifying a mono in such a way to have what i percieve is an unfair advantage in a class that was created as an alternative to the trick cycling route. I felt the more interesting arguement not put forward in that post was how about putting a TY250R motor in a twinshock TY chassis?

I am considering buying a newish Beta to use in local non Classic trials and would ride that on the clubman route as many do and as Scorpa3 said "Almost all of us ride for fun and that is what trials should be all about. Having a good day out on the bike with like minded people." Again my opinion horses for courses. Modern bikes in Modern trials Classic bikes in Classic trials. But YOU ride what YOU like where YOU like. That is up to you not me. My only fear is that when people ride modern bikes even on a no award / guest basis somehow even though the course setter says they wont let it affect the way they set out the course it always does. Same thing happens with Pre65 as soon as the more tricked up bikes enter the courses get made harder to "take marks off them".

Thats life i suppose perhaps it's me.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Old trials fanatic

[scorpa3]

No matter how hard the course setters try, there are always going to be riders who think their route was too hard and others who think it is too easy.

In our club trials we use four routes. This takes a lot of time to plan and set out and I still hear "The A route is too hard and the B route is too easy, what you need is another route in between!".... and this is with FOUR routes!

It is near impossible to get it spot on for every rider, every time. This is why I simply encourage people to ride what ever route they fancy on the day.

Now I'm not saying you should enter a machine in a class into which it shouldn't go. I fully agree that Pre-65's should mean that, and that Twin shock should mean twinshock from the factory. However, I wouldn't object to someone fitting disc brakes to a twin shock machine or even a later engine. But as you say this is just my personal opinion on the subject.

Anyone turning up to one of our events on an 'out of class' machine would be more than welcome, they would just have to ride as a clubman, not as a Pre-65 or a Twin shock.

[huntmaster]

I rode my Honda TL in "modern" trials during the mid-seventies...and then again in "vintage" in the 90's.

It was fun both times... I have no preference!

[old trials fanatic]

Four routes Scorpa3 blimey.

We only get two routes at most trials in these parts. I get confused with two

I didnt mean to get anybodys back up with any of my opinions or comments just felt that there was a feeling talking to a few of the riders locally that the sections by and large were about as tough as they want to be for old codgers on classic bikes like myself. There was some concern about letting riders ride on modern machinery and that the sections would get more difficult as a result. This would then discourage the riders on Pre65 and in some cases twinshocks from riding. This has happened at one club locally Peak Classic where at a recent round, Dudwood Farm, only two British four strokes competed. That is also the club where i will now be riding the Pinky as their Classic trials are getting too tough even on the easy route for Pre65 bikes. That is the cumulative effect of twinshocks and then aircooled monos on a Classic Bike club.

Even at Midland Classic a club where supposedly nothing pre72 including twinshocks is "supposed" to be allowed a recent round at Rhodesia had riders of Pre65 machinery riding down 4ft sheer drops into the river resulting in quite a few over the handlebars moments. Thankfully nobody was injured but a 350 Triumph twin landing on top of you is not to be encouraged. The sections in question were laid out by a family who have a young son who competes in modern trials and saw nothing wrong in the sections severity and felt that they were a doddle. They would be on a modern bike but not on what the trial was intended for.

That unfortunately is generally the outcome when modern bikes and Classics mix IMHO. Also allowing discs again IMHO would encourage the same thing which i think was Woodies position in the earlier posting of which i spoke.

NOT trying to spoil anybodys enjoyment i just worry about some of the local clubs direction. Peak Classic was a good club for Pre65 when it was formed. It was a pre 65 club that had a few twinshocks riding. In a matter of 2years it is now a twinshock club with a few Pre65 riders and the club secretary is now talking about scrapping the classes for British bikes and combining them all into one class as there are not enough entries in that class to warrant seperate class awards. Probably at this rate there wont be any. I wont ride my B40 there again.

Perhaps my local area is different to the rest of the country. I dont know but it seems a shame that the bikes for which the club was founded are being forced out due to the impossibility of some of the sections. That came from an ex centre champion and regular competitor in the Scottish Six Days trial said to me at a recent round.

Made me think. Hope i'm wrong. I know most on this site wont agree with me.

[the artist formerly known as ish]

Not to get off topic, but how hard is it to get observers at twin shock trials?

Reason I ask, you see post about how hard it is to find observers in modern trials, and wondered if the observers prefer observing in a easier going enviroment, using the old no stop rules, and I would think for the most part the older generation of rider.

[old trials fanatic]

I recently posted on that very subject "what do you do when you cant get enough observers". I had noticed recently that the two clubs i ride at, both "Classic Bike Clubs" had recently had to run trials with only half the sections manned. The riders having to observe themselves at the un manned ones. A situation i found most unacceptable. So my personal experience is that it is probably harder in the area locally that i ride to get observers at twinshock and Pre65 trials than modern ones.

Then again i may be wrong

[scorpa3]

We're lucky. We run one classic trial per year with 35 sections and have a really good core of regular observers who just observe this one trial every year. Presumably just to see the classic machines.

Our only concern is that many of these observers will not be with us in a few years time. Who will we call on then?

[pitley]

Aye good trial that, nice ride out , good sections, good veiws over the cotswolds.

I am doing the frank jones trial at builth wells next week and word is that the trial is 2X20 sections due to lack of entries, 30+entered so far.

Seems to me the Miller series needs the air cooled trail bikes class back to make these events worth while again.

Any thoughts?

[scorpa3]

I must admit, I thought it was strange that the series dropped the trail bike class.

I bought a Pampera in 2003 just to use in the Miller rounds and really enjoyed the trials for a couple of years until the trail bikes were dropped.

The Stratford club welcomed the trail bikes as it made up the numbers and in my opinion didn't do any harm at all.

It's a lot of work to put on a round when there are only 30ish riders enter.

Since the trail bikes were dropped from the Miller Series, we have introduced the OK Supreme trail bike trial which has been very popular.

I guess we were lucky to get 100 riders in September on trial bikes then 80+ on Classics in May.

Fingers crossed the same happens this year.

[sutty]

i ride both modern and twin shock and pre 65 and find that the most fun is on my beesa c15 afer riding me beesa me beta is just so much easer to ride one thing you learn riding older bikes is throtle control and braking as they are a bit to be desired if all these kids out there rode a old style bike for a while what a differance there riding would be the only thing i find is in are club as probably most clubs the sections are suitable for modern bikes but a bit tight for me beesa but i still manage to get round on the other side of the coin ride a road trial there so different and great fun

[twinshockdude]

old trials fanatic makes several points about peak classic trials,in an attempt to please all the riders we will be running a 50 / 50 route from now on,which in theory will mean the clubman route can be nice and non threatening,the expert route can be fairly challenging and the majority of riders who fall in the middle will also have a good days sport.like most clubs we have a huge range of rider ability,we also have many competitive riders,as well as many people who just want a steady ride out on there old bike,with this in mind it is very difficult to get it right all the time.hopefully these changes will go some way to pleasing more of the riders more of the time.